Saving Throws in IWD

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hello, i was wondering if attributes (int, wis, etc) affected saving throws in IWD, or are they simply level/class/race based? that is to say, having 3 wisdom vs. 18 wouldn't increase will type saves, etc (yes, i know there saves are grouped differently, just providing an example).

ty!

 

Accordin to 2nd edition AD&D rules, high WIS should give saving throw bonuses to save vs spell against mind effecting things, such as charm, fear, hold, confusion, dominate, etc. And high DEX should give bonuses to saving throws when you can move quickly to avoid damage:save vs spells against a fireball, or most save vs breath weapon.

However, there is no evidence if it is implemented in the game or not. I guess they are not implemented. Sorry.

 

No stats affect saving throws.
The only racial bonus you get is a +5 bonus in 2 of the 5 saves for gnomes and in 3 of the 5 saves for dwarves and halflings, making them superior to other races like elves and humans.

 

Ehm, not necessarily. The save bonuses are based on CON - being CON / 3.5 - so only characters with 18-20 CON would get +5 to the stats.

And I'll definitely not agree on them being 'superior', but that's another discussion entirely.

 

Fel, I've read that IWD implemented an across the board +5 for these races, and doesn't consider CON at all. I've never tested it though.

 

i think it's just a straight across-the-board bonus to saving throws based on race, but i'll doublecheck in a little bit.

that being said, the attribute bonuses/penalties are a bit unclear in the manual...so basically, the only people that can get 18/xx str are fighters or fighter multiclasses?

and elves get +1 dex, -1 con, and dwarves get +1 con and -1 dex AND -2 cha??? an faq said that it was +1con/-1dex/-1cha for dwarves, but my game says that my dwarf can only go up to 16 charisma total. weird.

 

Exceptional STR is awarded to any Fighter, multiclassed Fighter, Ranger, or Paladin with an 18 STR.

 

In all IE games you can't give more than 16 cha to dwarves at character creation.
But in IWD it doesn't really matter because you can create 5 other characters for your party who can be the party diplomat.

 

That's a racial maximum, not an adjustment; an adjustment would affect the minimum too. Dwarves only get +1 CON and -1 CHA, but before those adjustments they can't have more than 17 in DEX or CHA. Same deal with halflings only being able to have 17 WIS max. The little guys get shafted on stats, but I suppose the save bonuses (and everything else factored together, really) are supposed to make up for it.

 

Ofcourse, short people get saving throws based on their CON scores. This is obvious, and is shown at character record page also. But nobody gets saving throw bonuses due to high WIS or DEX AFAIK, or we do not know if they really get it.

Dwarves and halflings get +1 bonus per 3,5 CON to their save vs death, wands, and spells. Gnomes get the same bonus for their save vs wands and spells. This is a huge bonus which can make the difference between life and death. (say, when a Beholder locks his disintegrating eye on you, GASP! )

 

What tests have you done on this? I believe that, in the past, when I create a character with lower constitution he gets the same saving throw bonus as one with higher constitution (as Klorox suggested). So I have no conclusive tests, but my observations tell me that it's a flat +5 to saving throws and is unaffected by constitution score. Obviously the manual says otherwise.

 

Tests? Create a level 1 gnome fighter with 3 CON, create another one with 18 CON, and create a human fighter with any CON score. Enter character screen and see their saving throws. Their base saving throws are equal, but tough gnome fighter gains +5 to save vs wands and spells thanks to his 18 CON. If he had 7 CON, he would only gain +2 bonus. Test, test, test and you will see it. Hopefully.

EDIT:Woo I loved my new star-sapphire! Isn't it cool!

 

Well...... it just shows that you spend WAY too much time in here, so no, not really...

 

Sure, when I am not able to play BG2 or IWD games I visit this sorcery place for the flavour. What can I say, I love this place!

BTW, have you made the test ister? Tell us the results, if you please.

 

Fel, as a player of p&p D&D, the little guys don't get shafted. In those games, you didn't have an 18 in any stat that mattered anyway!

 

I know, I'm a PnP player myself. But the plain truth is that they get shafted on the stats, if not on the whole. (And as a "DEX player", I really don't like the dwarves' restriction. )

 

I disagree. I can't remember rolling too many 18's anyway, and dwarves get so many other awesome bonuses.

What difference does it really make between a 17 and an 18 DEX? It's not like a guy with a 17 has slow reflexes or anything.

And I don't think anybody ever minded not having a 18 CHA dwarf!

Halflings are restricted in their STR... okay. If some dudes who came up to my waist were stronger than me I'd be worried!

 

I just don't like the way it looks, is all. When you look at the maximum possible, they can't be as good stat-wise as the other races, and it just doesn't seem fair. Not that the maximum possible is ever going to happen, but still...

You wouldn't say that if you'd ever tried a dwarven skald.

It's not a difference between 17 and 18 in PnP rolls. It's a difference between 14 and 18, or 16 and 18. To not be able to put your best roll there if it's an 18...just friggin' sucks. It limits them unfairly, so that halfling clerics and dwarven thieves end up very rare indeed. And without arcane available, every dwarf ends up a fighter or fighter/cleric, and every halfling a thief of some kind. [Mr. Mackey voice] Stereotypes are bad, m'kay? [/Mr. Mackey voice]

If you want to know more about what I think, and maybe continue this further, there's a thread I started a while back in the D&D forum on this very topic.

EDIT:
Had to look back more than a year, but here it is.

[ October 04, 2006, 22:04: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

 

Gimmie a link, and we'll continue there then.