Saves against spells cast by multiclass characters... Also, a question about monks.

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I was wondering about the following:

I'm planning a 20 sorceror, 1 paladin, 4 fighter, 1 monk, 1 ranger, and 3 something else I haven't decided yet. I was wondering, when he casts sorceror spells at enemies, will the enemies have to save against his total character level, or only against his sorceror levels?

I'm also planning a 20 monk, 1 paladin, 4 fighter, 1 ranger, 4 something else that dual wields long swords, and will wear a robe (through custom dll mod). Was wondering, will he retain his monk ac bonus, monk wisdom ac bonus, spell resistance, improved evasion and damage resistance while dual wielding and wearing robes?

 

The wisdom AC bonus depend on the mod you're using. I think I saw one that added 'robes' that a monk could use and still get the bonuses, but I don't know if that's the same one. Dual wielding, I don't know. I don't think the rest of the monk bonuses are conditional on anything.

As for the sorcerer, I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure it'll be the character's caster level, meaning their level in the class that gives them the spells. So, if casing sorcerer spells, his sorcerer level is what matters. If you ever get spells from that 3 something else, those spells will depend on that class level.

 

Only hard sorcerer levels count when you're casting sorcerer spells. Note that SAVING THROWS have nothing to do with caster's level (apart from the possible stat point bonus every 4th level), only spell resistance does.

Only Monk Wisdom AC bonus gets disabled by wearing something in the body armor slot. The custom dll mod makes this limitation disappear for robes, though. Furthermore, anything heavier than Studded Leather will disable your (improved or vanilla) evasion. You still retain monk level AC bonus, spell resistances and damage resistance. Dual-wielding doesn't incur any limitation, except for the attack bonus penalty associated with it.

 

For the most part, as long as you put all your level-up points into CHA, a multi-classed sorc will be as effective as a pure-class sorc except that he will have fewer spells. The exceptions are 1.) the handful of spells that continue to gain damage past level 20 (e.g. Delayed Blast Fireball), 2.) enemies with Spell Resistance (which is opposed by caster level). And of course spells will have shorter durations, which may matter for stuff like Mass Dominate as well as Spirit/Ghost Armor.

-Max

 

I agree that it's generally true that if you take a sorc straight up to level 20, then mix in the remaining classes, the sorc will probably be fairly similar in effectiveness to a pure sorc, since most spellcasting classes tend to start slowing their spell progression at level 20. That said, I probably wouldn't bother multiclassing a sorc (with the possible exception of a level or 2 of paladin), since sorcerers tend to work best when they stay out of melee ... and all those listed class mix-ins appear aimed at making the character better in melee.

I suppose that if the character is intended to be played solo, there might be some value in the mix-ins, though I have a hard time seeing the value in soooo many mixed-in classes. But if this character is to be a part of a larger party, I'd probably suggest a purer sorcerer than one that's so heavily multi-classed.

 

L30 or L40 builds are all well and good but can you actually get to even L20 on Insane mode with a 4 member party with no mules. Now if you are gonna be playing HoF then Saving throws wont come into the discussion as even the Targos goblins have something like +17 to saves.

 

Save-based spells still work quite well in HoF. HoF monsters get +10 to saves, but it's more than possible to Mass Dominate 80-95% of a group of monsters, put them all to sleep with Greater Command, etc. Save-based spells work considerably better than direct damage spells in HoF in my experience.

Assuming, of course, that you're willing to powergame. I doubt it would be quite as effective if you play something like a WIS 16 CHA 14 wannabe sorcerer who puts all his level-up points into INT because he has an inferiority complex about not having gone to college. If you do powergame, then between CHA 30-32[1] and Greater Spell Focus you can be looking at DC 33-4 for Mass Dominate from a sorc, and IIRC DC 39 from a Dreadmaster with maxed WIS, which is really overkill because almost nobody resists it anyway at DC 33.

@Crucis, the ranger mixin is mostly melee-oriented, but 4 fighter levels add significant value to a ranged sorc, and of course the paladin level adds both offensive (BAB) and defensive value, and the monk level adds evasion. Since the ranger mixin also adds BAB[2], it's possible that the given sorc build would be great at ranged combat--counting Rapid Shot he hits the 5 attacks/round cap, and if he wants to he can afford good STR and DEX without sacrificing any CHA. Edit: The 3 extra levels, assuming they are ever reached, could be added to reach Pal2/Ranger2/Monk2 for +3 more BAB, or could be tossed into sorc for the extra spells and duration.

-Max

[1] High end requires racial CHA bonus, level 28 and all points to CHA, and a good roll on Eagle's Splendor, so it's better to plan for 30-ish.

[2] You don't necessarily have to want two-weapon fighting to take a ranger mix-in. Taking a lot of mixins can be valuable for increasing saves and BAB without taking an XP penalty, if your main class is favored, because all the mixins are within 1 level of each other.

 

Wail of the Banshee is a beautiful spell in HoF mode. That's all I have to say.