"Powergaming" party thread (not strict)

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so i was wondering what should i do for a thief the ultimate powergaming party suggests

drow thief(1)/conjurer max dex max int but drows are ECL -2 and 1 level of thief means u are 3 levels behind any regular wizard is it good enough? can i make regual human thief/cojurer with "almost" the same quality or he will lose all the goods when changing to human?

 

Neither of the two.

Ultimate thief would be a Deep Gnome Rogue(2)/Paladin(1)/Illusionist(x). Not only do you get a full scale thief, you get a mighty tough tank (VERY handy trait for a sneaky Rogue) AND almost pure wizard, all in one. And once you get Tenser's Transformation, you're way up there (and beyond) with pure warriors in sheer killing power, for times when lobbing Fireballs left and right isn't optimal.

 

thanks but this wasn't really my question and i know some deep gnome rogue paladin inllusionist would be superior but he will advance in spells like over 9000 levels behind party so it is not cool for me

drow rogue(1)/diviner will be 3 levels behind party

human rogue(1)/diviner will be only 1 level behind

also will something like be ok as secondary caster and rogue?
human rogue(1)/sorc(x) 6/18/10/16/8/18

 

What do you mean "behind party"? Me no understand. My current DG tank/thief/wizard is sporting 9th level spell slots when drops and shops only provide up to 6th level spells. The trick is to know which party members need more levels in order to fully function compared to rest of the party, and starting the game with ONLY that/those characters.

Any mix in level for a caster in a party of six is going to make the spellcasting side drag behind. There's just no way around it, and choosing something with lesser ECL penalty just to lessen this imbalance is a bit backwards method of solving it. But yes, a human works wonders if you really want to have the cake and eat it too.. At a cost for the rest of the party.

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Oh, I now realize that you probably asked something else than I was answering for.

Any character with maxed INT is good enough as a thief in this game if all you need is someone to pick up lockpicking and disarming duties. It's only when you want to use the character for actual sneaky stabby things at the front lines that the AC requirements make selecting the Deep Gnome quite indispensable.

 

well i was asking about this exact thing

drow wizard lvl 3 = human wizard lvl 5 with exact same experience so i was wondering if it's good to make human rather than drow for faster levels


as for INT thx

i tried thinking of something like max dex max int max cha for human rogue(1)/sorc for secondary sorc but i don't know if it's as good as dex/int rouge/wizard(the exact point of scrolls of high level spells vs max spell lvl of wizard

 

The ECL doesn't matter much at all in a vacuum, it only matters in relation to the rest of the party. A high ECL race in a party mostly composed of zero ECL races is going to lag horribly behind, while a Drow in a party of nothing but Deep Gnomes will reach about the same level as a human in all zero ECL party would.

The lack of high level scrolls is a well known upper limit on the effectiveness of wizards, so you have to plan accordingly. An early addition to your party roster favors Sorcerer, a late addition can go wizard with little worries.

In case of the original UPP, the selection of Drow as a race for the thief/mage character IS partly due to the lack of scrolls. You need both ECL penalty and a mix-in level to not bump into the problem, so to speak. Of course, you'll be well into HOF mode to finally be able to use the 9th level spells you finally get your hands on in Severed Hand, but that's a conscious design choice rather than something you should worry about.

 

thanks man u are a godsends

i wish i knew english a little better so that my explanations were more on the spot

i only wish there was something usefull like rogue(1)/sorcerer ; P

wild elf
rogue(1)/sorc
7/20/12/16/3/18
?