POLL: Which solo is better?

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By better, I mean more satisfying, which I know is open to a lot of interpretation. I would love to hear your input and reasons why here.

Anyway, which of these "Mage/Thief" types makes for a better solo? Also, what levels do XP rewards increase for Thieves when they disarm traps and open locks?

Also, if you pick the "Human dualclass" option, please explain which, if any, kit is chosen, and what level you suggest dualclassing at.

I do not use cheats of any kind.

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 22 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Which solo is better? (22 votes.)

Which solo is better? (Choose 1)
* Human Thief > Mage dualclass - 9% (2)
* Gnome Illusionist/Thief - 59% (13)
* Elf Mage/Thief - 32% (7)

 

No idea about the trap and lock exp.

I recommend Gnome I/T because this gives you access to both HLA pools, an extra spell slot and the saving throw bonus. Since your soloing xp is not a problem, and you don't need to save all your scrolls until after you dual over. The only skill the illusionist loses is abi dalzims, which can be substituted for icendary cloud (max fire res is very easy to get) and the extra spell slot is invaluable, especially at level 18.

 

Never done solo

 

Jan. No question. Better saves, more spells / continuing thief skills, 19 INT (not that much of an advantage if you start in BG1, but still), and absolutely no need to cast necro spells. Incendiary Cloud does half the damage per round of ADHW but lasts 10 times longer. Cast & stealth (or SotM invis.) and they take 5 times as much damage; most groups don't even survive.

The chart's in another thread, but there are only four levels: 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, & 16+.

 

Now, Rogues rebalancing introduces new and cool thief kits, if you use one of them, dual-classing can be good.

But thief HLAs are very powerful. In fact, all class HLAs are very powerful. This causes MC characters who get HLAs from more than one class to be very powerful. Back in pure SoA, dual-class chars were superiour, but now I favour towards MC.

I have Jan with me and he is incredibly useful. Sets traps, detects illusions, and I never worry about Immy not being able to deal with a sinister lock or trap.

As for your other question:

pick locks | disarm traps

lvl 1-5: 250 1000

lvl 6-10: 400 1750

lvl 11-15: 950 2750

lvl 16-40: 1550 3250

Hope this helps.

 

I'd probabaly just favour the Elf M/T, but human Swashbuckler (10)/Mage (x) is a good option if you can handle gaining XP as a low-level mage. Gnome I/Ts are good (their saves are awesome!) but I prefer the versatility of being able to memorise anything to the extra spell slot. Love being able to stack Thief traps and Skull Traps...

 

I like kits and the Thief/Mage DC is fine since soloing you won't suffer too much from the inactive class thing. For once you can use scrolls to get XP without this tack feeling cheesy. It is only logical for a Thief planning to become a Mage to collect every scrolls he can find and then learn them all.

Agreed it might not be the most powerful option if you're not extremely patient and don't get UAI... HLA traps are good but Mage HLAs are even better so from a powergaming perspective only UAI is worth the hassle.

Swashbuckler/Mage is a good well rounded option with some better fighting abilities and extra AC (dual wielding Belm and Kundane or using the Tuigan bow you may not even notice the limited number of attacks). IMO it is an easier solo than with the other kits.

The ultimate backstabber is the Assassin/Mage. Get the extra backstab multiplier and go on a killing spree. With enough invisibility spells memorized this character can hide and hit without hindrance. The poison ability works wonderfully well against mages and lower level foes, once you get the Tuigan bow you're fine.

For a more strategic option, the Bounty Hunter/Mage is just frightening at higher levels once you get the (very) special traps. It is not that easy to pull off however if you don't know your way around the game.

I would certainly choose the Assassin/Mage if only for the fun factor and the sheer power (I like Wild Mages even better but the Thief/Wild Mage is not legit so it's not an option).

 

Yes, the mage HLAs are very good...once. You learn a spell, and it's done; you can cast that spell as many times as you have slots for it without needing to take that HLA ever again. And once you use up all of those, all you've got left is Alchemy and Scribe Scrolls to pick from. Not the best in my book, but then I don't usually use that many scrolls or potions to actually need extra from an HLA. Regardless, nothing is stopping you from taking the mage HLAs with a multi-class (possibly even more of them), so it's just a matter of preference changing the degree to which multi-class characters are better with respect to HLAs.

 

Then it would be better to play a Bard (all the traps you want).

I'd rather cast a spell because to use traps effectively you have either to RP paranoid or to use foreknowledge (which is not a problem if you're playing a Diviner )... or just scout.

More seriously, the DC can't get traps HLA but nevertheless IMO the kit bonuses are a nice compensation that shouldn't be overlooked in the equation.
As Fel pointed out it's really a matter of preference.

 

For me the Elven multi is JUST better than the Human dual.

The main thing is that multi's get BOTH HLA's which means you never run out and once the mage abilities are gone you can keep choosing spike traps and the like. A high level mage gets to pick some then twiddles his thumbs for quite a few levels.

 

First of all, thanks everybody, and keep those comments coming!

Silverstar wrote:

Even if I added the mod (which I'm not going to), I said I wouldn't cheat, and adding a kit to a multiclassed character is cheating.

Can anybody answer the question about increasing XP acording to your Thief level with regards to trapas and locks?

Also: I had originally considered a Swashbuckler 15 or 20 > Mage because I might get HLA's at that level (what level do Thieves get HLA's anyway?), and with the offensive bonuses, and using Belm in the offhand, it would be like having a FMT but in a different way.

I don't think I'll get HLAs by level 20 though, and I really would like to use the Thief HLAs, because I don't have a lot of experience with them.

 

Cheating has a negative connotation. While this would be technically cheating, it's the good kind of cheating; in PnP, kits are always available for multi-classed characters. Heck, there are even kits specifically designed for multi-classed characters.

Silverstar and I already answered that. SS even gave you the table.

Level 24 for thieves, because they level up so much faster than every other class. I'd suggest a dual at 10 or 15 normally, but soloing you might want to go for 25 for UAI and one trap (with max benefit for swashies at levels divisible by 5). I believe Faraaz took a Wild Mage->Cleric to 31/30-something, so there's a lot of room there.

You'd need an XP cap remover for 25, though, since that'd be 3.3M for the 25 swash levels and 6M for the 26 mage levels. In contrast, it'd be 2.2M for 20 swash levels and 4.125M for 21 mage levels. Down even further to 1.1M for 15 swash levels and 2.25M for 16 mage levels. Pick what you think looks best to you.

 

LOL, sorry about my missing stuff!

Thanks for the Level breakdown. If I decide I want some HLAs, I'm going to have to multiclass.

BTW, Fel, I specifically remember the class books (Complete Guide to Fighters, for instance) saying that kits are for single-classed characters only.

The race books started allowing multiclass kits.

 

Normal traps (and the Bounty Hunter's traps) are upgraded at level 16 and 21.

The Swashbuckler can use Whirlwind attack, but to get any thief HLAs you have to wait until level 24...

The Assassin gets backstab x6 at level 16 and x7 at level 20.

The Bounty Hunter's traps at level 16 act as Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Maze the target at level 21.

Dual classing at level 16 is not that hard and dual classing at level 20 or 21 can be done.

[ July 21, 2006, 15:04: Message edited by: Caradhras ]

 

I have to admit, it does sound like a cool and interesting challenge to get to level 20 or 21 and dual at that point. After thinking about it, I'm in no way going to base my dual on how much XP is gained by disarming traps and such, because by the time my Thief level reactivates, I won't need to be on the look out for a tiny bit more XP.

I also hate memorizing and erasing scrolls, and won't resort to that cheese. But I do wonder how many levels I can gain after the initial switch in classes by memorizing every scroll (again, no repeats) I can collect over the entire adventure. I think avoiding that tactic is just foolish!

 

Not just foolish, but almost anti-RP. Most wizards are obsessed with their spellbooks, partially since they're useless without them, and acquiring more and more spells...why pass up an opportunity when you don't have to? Depending on the type of wizard, they may even step over the bodies of their comrades to get a Grease spell.

 

I was referring to the effect of traps upgraded at level 16 and 20, not the XP you get from cleaning them up.

The scribe/erase scrolls tack is too cheesy for words. I'm thinking of simple scribing spells:

level 1: 21

level 2: 20

level 3: 24

level 4: 23

level 5: 23

level 6: 24

level 7: 20

level 8: 13

level 9: 14

Total: 854K if I didn't make any mistake

That's level 12 (taking in consideration that some spells may not be available earlier in the game).
IMO it can be done, a level 12 mage solo is no puny weakling.

 

Rather 939,4 K if you take into account that you always get 10 percent more XP than displayed.

 

First of all, I'd eliminate the DC option immediately, because it's not practical to wait to get Thief HLAs and then dual-class. You're basically playing two single classed characters at that point, as you will go through the majority of the game as either a thief, with no mage abilities, or a mage, with your thief skills unavailable. And since thief HLAs are so powerful, I can't see not getting thief HLAs.

So for me, the decision comes down to the elf multi class or the gnome multi class, and I'd have to go with the elf here. Since you're soloing, you're going to be leveling like crazy, and I think I'd prefer the versatility of being able to use necromancy spells as opposed to the extra spell slot. Besides, once you can cast wish (which will happen a lot earlier than you expect - long before you finish SoA), you can automatically rememorize all your spells without resting anyway.

True, but practically speaking, unless he waited until ToB to dual, there would be no way that he'd have ALL of the spells. I think a much more realistic estimake would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 400K to 500K. Of course, that still isn't bad, as you'd be level 11 I think.