POLL: Please, make your voice heard

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Ok, this is going to regard a topic that many of you will ignore straight away. But please, dont just ignore this, as your opinion is important here.

This relates to the Alleys, and the people I am most interested to hear from are those that dont go in there that often, if at all.

Now some may argue that what is the point on hearing from these people if they dont go in there? Well, I'm one of these people, but I want to go in there. The reason I dont is that I feel that the Alley is too aggressive, and that respect for others has been lost, or always lacking. I have had times when I've felt like complaining, but when I wasnt here that long the question was: to whom?

The old mods do a great job, but to someone who's a newbie, they might seem too 'removed'. The new mods are also great. as they are used to the cut and thrust of the alley. However, there isnt someone there who sees the place as one who isnt too happy with bit in it's current format. Someone who is concerned with what goes on. Someone who the more cautious or timid can, not necessaril relate to, but feel they can bring up issues with.

So... I was thinking that there ought to be a 'people's choice' mod. Someone who those who dont really go for the alley know they cam turn to and raise their issues with. Someone who might very well feel like they do. Now, what they truely will be able to do is open for discussion, and most likely will end at: nothing the current mods cant do. However, there is more to it then rule enforcement. There is being a 'link' to the establishment for sp members. A pr guy perhaps.

As such I was thinking a people's mod should be chosen from among the people. Campaign, add your mandate, explain why it should be you.

Now all this is irrelevent if people think it's a bad idea or dont want it. So the poll is simple... good or bad?

Depending on the result will depend on what the next step is. If it is bad then there is no next step. If it is good then an election thread might be opened. Somewhere people can add their mandate and stuff, with a poll following shortly after to find out who the people want.

So, please, add your voice and explain what you think. Try to add what you like/dislike about the alley, and how you think it could be changed. And mostly add whether you think this might actually change your opinion, whatever it may be, on the place.

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 31 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Please, make your voice heard (31 votes.)

Do ou think that having another mod, chosen by sp will help? (Choose 1)
* Yes, it's a good idea that might help the Alleys. - 52% (16)
* No, it's a bad idea that will only make things worse. - 48% (15)

 

Takara, I see you have put a lot of thought and effort into this post, but I'm not sure I understand what it is you are asking. Is there nobody amongst the current mods that you feel you could go to if you had an issue?

 

Well, as a n00b, the original 3 mods were quite foreboding. The new mods are great for the alley, but they are quite active in there, and might be part of a problem at some point. I was thinking this might provide a more 'friendly' face, if possible, for people to go to.

To the new mods, dont think this is anything against you. I think you'll do a great job, but my thoughts here are for someone who isnt quite so... 'active and forceful' in the arguments that take place there.

 

Tak, I want to know how your idea of running an election for a new op in #sorcerers, turned into this?

 

Actually Sorvo, that idea came out of this one. At the time my own daft brand of humour fed that particualr idea.

 

Well, I am whole-heartedly against this. Our mods are not "removed" from the masses -- they were selected FROM us -- and are exceptionally fair-minded and look out for the interest of us all.

Our mods are certainly approachable -- they've been here at SP a very long time -- are pleasant and KNOWLEDGEABLE about the rules. I truly believe they try to make it better for all.

I'm sorry, but I have to say this. Were all those "Congratulations!!" "Great choice, Tal!" or "Congrats!! Couldn't have picked a better mod!!" comments for our mods, lies? It seems to me that many of us expressed our happiness quite profusely at the choice of mods lately. Did we not mean it? Do we feel that we cannot turn to these people or rely on them to be fair?---but yet we're happy they were chosen??

I'm sorry, but I don't see this at all. A PR guy?? Why do we need this? Or a link to the establishment?? I think we're all big boys and girls -- if we have an issue we can go directly to either Tal or any other mod here -- for heaven's sake -- the link to the establishment is the PM button!

Imo, this is not a political arena here. It's a gaming site, with moderators who do an excellent job. Let's not turn it into something it isn't.

I know this wasn't your intent, but quite frankly, I think this whole suggestion flies in the face of every mod here -- and is quite insulting to them -- not an overt spoken insult, but one by inference.

[ February 17, 2005, 23:24: Message edited by: Spellbound ]

 

Personally, I'm not sure what this extra moderator would accomplish... the cut & thrust of "lively" debating in the AoDA & AoLS is what made me sign up! The fact that Tal, chev, Hacken et al contribute so much isn't really a negative; they're just more visible, that's all. Besides, Taluntain's always seemed quite approachable, even given he eviscerated one of Kelvon's posts the other day.

The Alleys are about those topics of conversation that everyone says should never be discussed at dinner parties: politics, religion, and (to some extent) sex. They're the kind of things that people can, and do, get worked up about. But anyone can, that's the point. But that's what makes them so great: they're far more interesting topics than you'd normally discuss in an average day. As long as you stick to the regs, there's no problem. Do you feel that forum-goers haven't been doing that en masse, but not picked up upon? Personally, I can't see that myself. I just don't see how the extra mod will make a positive difference, really.

[EDIT: Right on, Spellbound! The mods we've got are good, even if I don't agree with all their posts all of the time... Leave our Alleys alone, dammit!]

 

An interesting idea, but perhaps too little too late? I think any more than the three "Alley Mods" we have, plus our "usual suspects" would be soundly in the realm of overkill. I think (from my browsing and lurking in the darkened corners of the alleys) that the guys in now are doing a fine job. But there is such a thing as "too many chiefs, not enough indians..."

My two clam shells.

 

I don't think it would help or make things worse. The Alleys are (usually) held to forum rules and those that break the rules are handled.
The problems that I encounter in the Alleys are usually:
* A lack of respect that does not violate forum rules
* Being quoted out of context (or misquoted). Not a rule violation.
* Being mislabeled. For example, I have been referred to as a "bushie" or pro-bush, just because I am conservative. Again, not a rule violation.
* Poor debating.

I have also been the target (and poster) of some flagrant violations. The mods are usually on it pretty quickly. So I don't think an additional mod will help or hurt, as the forums are pretty well moderated already.

For the most part, I have stopped posting in the Alleys. It's kind of ironic, because I was one of the people that participated in many of the discussions that caused the AODA to be formed (out of Whatnots). I find the discussions there to be endlessly frustrating. And with the mental issues that I have (PTSD), I needed to eliminate anxiety causing stimuli. I see it as my problem, not the Alleys'.

Besides, I live in a world of grey, and the Alleys tend to be black or white.

 

Could not have said it better....bravo

On the whole moderater issue I can be brief. I said before that I don't post in the alley because I feel communicating (very) serious issues in written form can never be the same, or come even close for that matter, as a face to face conversation and is prone on misunderstanding one another posts. But many here do take the privalige to discuss in the alley and that in my eyes is a good thing. But all I hear is nagging about how there cannot be a good discussion. I feel another moderater will not solve this problem. Solution lies in the posters not in the moderaters. Feel free to post, if you don't like the answers maybe this isn't the boards to post you thoughts. In my view it's THAT simple. Why debate serious issues with people who won't listen to you in the first place. Find a place where you can.

 

Well - the best person to complain to about anything at all would be Tal - they're his rules, he knows them best, and thus he's the one most likely to make the most Sorcerer's Place-ish decision on them. And while he's a big and terribly intimidating figure and all - if you actually care enough about your complaint, then it shouldn't be too hard to write that PM...

 

Spellbound gave us a taste of what Tak was talking about. Taking apart someone's post point by point may seen aggressive or disrespectful. Afterall it's rarely if ever seen on these boards, outside of the Alleys.
But it's a way to ensure that the message comes across and in the right context. I guess all that finger pointing is troubling to those of us who are not regulars in the Alleys.
There is nothing there that the original mods, or a new one for that matter, can do about.

I have found that the 'establishment' is pretty acceccible. PM Tal or Beren and the reply comes in by the time I log in again.
I didnt' vote since you dont have a neutral option.

 

My idea wasnt meant as a slight against any of the mods, old or new. When I was just a newbie here, I generally kept my head down and tried to go with the flow. I wouldnt complain about anything because I felt I should just accept the way things are. Now I've been here a bit, I've gotten to know and have talked to Tal, Beren, and have gotten to know some of the other's , at least their stance on matters.

The original three mods got more alley specific mods appointed because they are busy looking after the rest of the board they dont have the time to go through every post. I have been in private talks with them in the past, but that is from the benefit of getting to know them in #sorcerers.. The new mods are also good as they provide people with someone to go to who might represent their viewpoint. Dmc is central and Chandros and Hacken are from one of the polarised extremes.

As someone who doesnt post in the Alley anymore because I'm tired of getting 'almost' flamed for just opening my mouth I was thinking that having another mod from the center, someone like Beren who is not generally involved in the arguments there might help entice some back into the alleys. Dmc is and will do a great job in that regard, but I was thinking of getting some back up for the cenralists. Yes, it could turn into a popularity contest, but it would give people an opportunity to select someone they feel is needed. Candidates can say what side left/right/center they are and how involved in discussion they will be. That way people can select who they feel could plug any gaps. The reason for this poll to start was to find out if sp felt there were any gaps, and to gather the general mood towards the Alley. Particularly from those like Jack Funk and Apeman who dont really go in. I was hoping to find out why, and if anything might change that.

 

I still don't see how it would help having another mod there to be intimidated by. Part of the Alley experience is getting torn to shreds each time you open your mouth ... and people actually like that kind of stuff (apparently) - but it's not flaming generally. And if it is, there's now a host of new mods to pick up on it, or a complaint can be sent to someone.

And you seem to be somewhat saying that Beren fills this role anyway...

 

While I understand where Takara is coming from, I agree with Tal, that if 6 mods isn't enough, adding a 7th wouldn't really help. If you're looking for someone in the middle, you have Beren and dmc. And if you're looking for someone in the middle and who isn't an Alley regular, you have Beren. And seriously, if anyone thinks Beren isn't approachable, I'd like to hear why.

Takara, like I said, I know what you're saying, but personally, I think we can work with what we've got. And as I think about it, if we want the "tone" of the Alley to change, what better way to do accomplish that than by getting involved in the discussions? Keep you posts respectful, and if you get flames, take the high road and turn the other cheek. If enough people adopt this approach, things are bound to change eventually.

 

speaking for myself, I usually don't post in the alleys because (we should have a blush smilie ) the posts are just too long heh I mean, I can read an occassional chev-sized post in the middle of a discussion but it gets to be too much like work when everyone posts that much

 

True, but the majority of which I have seen are. And I'm not saying its a bad thibg, by all means keep making your points and take as much room as you want but keeping up with such debates are much more time consuming than posting in the RB for example or most other topics.

I don't go there because it takes a lot of time or I'm too lazy to keep up with the debates. Its more a matter of people being interested in such things and posting them here than people being intimidated by the mods or those forums. Adding another mod won't make people go there if they don't already, most don't want or have the time to spend there. Which is the case with me, I'd rather do other things with my spare time than be involved in such debates, not that there's anything wrong with it but personally I like to do other stuff instead. Adding another mod won't make me more willing to go there. I may not speak for everyone, but this is my position on it.