POLL: Dire Predictions, A Vote for Democracy, The Issues at Hand

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The title may appear foreboding but the questions are very to the point - or pointed, if you will. And they are all somewhat related.

First: Dire Predictions: Kerry seems to be moving into a strong postition to win as a result of critical swing states appearing to be moving his way. Bush is nevertheless gaining even more votes in the Red States, which are already his. It MAY BE that we will see the reverse of the last election, with Kerry winning the EC and Bush winning the popular vote, even though Republican efforts to redistrict the EC have given them a 5-7 vote advantage over 2000. So much for democracy and representative government. Even though things appear to be breaking Kerry's way, Bush will find someway to win this again. And all I can say is that he deserves to be the one to clean up the steaming mess he has made - the sooner he starts, the better. But what's your prediction?

On Democracy: Internationally, most everyone seems to have a keen interest in the upcoming election, which is only 9 days away. On another thread, those who were not Americans were excluded from voting, which was totally undemocratic, IMO. So here is the chance for those who were left out - call it the unoffical SP ballot box for Prez. Everyone can cast a vote.

The Issue: Iraq! But alas, it is not THE issue that I am most concerned with. The main issue for me is the deep division in my country. And it all comes down to leadership. Shrub said it himself: "He would be a uniter and not a divider." Let's all have a huge laugh on that one. But it's really not so funny. Nor is it just an unkept campaign promise.

Before anyone judges America solely on our warmongering president, keep in mind that there is still the other 50 percent of those of us who believe that war really is a matter of last resort and that, in Jefferson's words, America needs "to run the race of peace."

And there are some conservative Republicans who believe that the war is wrong also; such as Pat Buchanan (but he still supports Bush), who has been very vocal in his oppostition to the Iraq War. That 50 percent needs representation in this country also. And Bush has ignored them. Thus, he is only half a leader. By his own standard he has failed the leadership test. Give the other guy a chance, for he may surprise everyone in this regard, IF he gets the chance.

So what is the make-or-break issue for you? The economy? The war? A set of related social issues? And for those who are not American, still feel free to give your thoughts on the make-or-break issue for you as well. For me its leadership. Let's end the division and heal the country, please.

Poll Information
This poll contains 2 question(s). 24 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Dire Predictions, A Vote for Democracy, The Issues at Hand (24 votes.)

Dire Predictions: Who do you think will win? (Choose 1)
* John Kerry - 46% (11)
* George Bush - 54% (13)

A vote for Democracy: Who would/will you vote for? (Choose 1)
* John Kerry - 96% (23)
* George Bush - 0% (0)
* Other - 4% (1)

 

Good post, Chandos. I voted for Kerry, but I have the inescapable feeling that Bush will try to pull off another "Florida", in this case by jimmying the results in those states that have adopted electronic voting with no paper trail. But I also think that if this happens Kerry won't wimp out and just sulk off the stage like Gore did in 2000. Maybe we'll have some post-election fireworks this time.

 

Interesting points you made, Chandos. I think Bush will win, if for no other reason than (1) people everywhere are stupid and not politically aware, (2) the Republicans and their supporters are willing to do just about anything (legitimate and dubious) to win, and (3) I can handle being wrong. I don't think anyone can speak for the whole country, and democracy shouldn't just be on the basis of majority. You are 100% right, thought, when you say that Bush and his supporters (in Washington and the media) have continually squashed opposition or counter-arguments by a resort to rhetoric and scaremongering; hardly the sort of school-yard bully antics that befits the leader of the most powerful country in the world.

If I had to list my key issues, I would have to say the war in Iraq, simply because it ties into so many other issues. Bush's willingness to sacrifice his soldiers, the ongoing deployment and casualties, the deceptions and the involvement with big companies by Bush and his administration are all linked to Iraq, and through them, statecraft and trust. As a non-American, I don't know much about the US's internal social problems, only that they definitely exist.

 

I dont live in the US, but my biggest point to pick is fear. Whilst Clinton was in power, he seemed to be helping stabilise the world. He helped in Bosnia, tried to help solve the Israel/Palestine problem, and even tried to help in N.Ireland. Not every effort succeeded, maybe not even many, but the thing is, he TRIED!

Now, fast forward to the Bush years. Instead of feeling safer, the world feels a lot more dangerous. This guy's warmongering, has made the middle East, and terrorism a MUCH bigger danger. Invading Iraq, IMO, has just made the situation much much worse. Bush's whole approach, his labelling an 'Axis of exil' BS. He's personally sending this world to hell in a hand cart with his policies, and someone really needs to stop him.

 

@Non Sequitur:

I didnt even need to see your "from" status. Obviously an Australian.

I dont think that the swing is big enough for Bush's "tactics" not to decide the result.

 

I think Kerry will win and I hope Kerry will win. We are a group of people here that will have our own 'wake' here and have a large party if Kerry win. If Bush win, well, there is not many a people from my hometown who will be alive to see it happen.

 

I think Bush will win due to the very thing I deem as the most important in this election. The Bush administrations complete willingness to do *anything* to get things the way they want it. I am seriously afraid that the US is on its path to and authoritarian mock democracy and 30% of the population is cheering along the way and would welcome it. Iraq is just a sympton of the disease which plagues the top of the Republican party.

The sad thing is that the Bush administration have done so many things which would have threathened to topple any other US presidency in history but through the sheer number of them people are jaded and they are not seen as news anymore. People more easily believe in a big lie than a small one.

 

Bush will win, no doubt about it, even if Kerry gets more votes.

@ Caleb

Could you please explain why people from your hometwon won't be alive if Bush wins ? And why a group of people in Sweden would start celebrating if Kerry wins ? Would life in Sweden get SO much better if Bush is gone ?

Excuse me, but i can't help LMAO over comments like this.

 

A response to Pac man's post have been send to him in PM. The reason I do this is because my opinions of Bush may get me the IoTW plaque or even a ban if I express them here. It isn't any flames to Pac man.

The reason I tell you all is because I don't want to have you thinking that I had chickened out.

If anyone wants, I can send the response to him/her as well.

 

My prediction: Bush will win, if only because there will be... dubious occurances once again. I feel it in my bones. Although I am not as sure of it as I was in the past months.
And I am not sure if it really matters if he is re-elected. The harm is done, in many ways. How much worse could things possibly get? We will just sit and wait his second presidency out. For America itself, however, it could get worse, I guess, both internal and reputation-wise. That's in your own responsibility though. A shame that so many of our american friends let fear and propaganda get the better of them.

Why I oppose Bush. Please. Not a single good thing comes to mind when thinking of him or his administration. He is a dangerous man, like all leaders with a religious impetus are a danger. What made me really mad is that he has hurt Europe's cautious progress. This I wont forgive. We try to move away from a difficult past, towards peace, co-operation and this unbearable moron interveres for a petty reason such as war in Iraq. It's ironical in a way. Now, it may be in America's best interest to weaken the EU but it's nothing that makes me like our big/young brother any better. Or see him as a friend.

 

You just gave a perfect description of all politicians in general. They all lie and cheat, and try to present themselves as saints. I can give you dozens of examples in the Netherlands alone of people who fit that category. Let me know if you find one that's completely honest and truly works for the people's interrests alone, because that's a sight i wouldn't wanna miss.

 

While Bush might be the divider, Kerry is not the uniter - at least not as I see him. So much as Bush is not the right man for the post, neither is Kerry. Not wanting to offended the feelings of either group of people, this vote is like choosing between a chimp and an invertebrate. I am glad I don't have to vote in the US presidential elections. I would feel a strong urge to cast an empty bullot. But if Kerry were about to win and each vote counted, I would probably see Bush as the lesser evil and vote for him. Abortion would always kill more victims than the Iraq war. Other points of his programme could prove more destructive than whatever mess one little chimp is able to make. And, as this Bush is a different Bush to the Bush from before the vote, one hasn't seen Kerry's elected incarnation yet.

 

That is more or less true Pac Man, but there is a slight difference between lying and lying, hypocrisy and hypocrisy. A social democratic politician buying himself a mansion is quite bad but the leader of the most powerful country on earth lying and deceiving his population into war and in generally keeping the population in a perpetual state of fear of anything and everything so as to be able to do anything in the name of protection exceeds the petty hypocrasy of your average politician.

 

Kerry. IMO, Bush is a biased, narrow-minded, politician, with hardly any morals whatsoever. I repeat, IMO!!

Speaking objectively, no politicians really have any morals, but its like choosing between a rock and a hard place! Kerry would any day be better than Bush.

However, what America and the world really needs is another J.F. Kennedy.

 

I think people are still numb and worried after 9/11 (and over here, Bali and the Marriot Hotel attacks). It's easier to forget about problems at home when you have an external war to fight, too, despite the fact that it's not getting any better domestically. The current US administration seems Orwellian to me; the dichotomisation of everything into good and evil, with or against is frightening as hell given the ability of any US administration to affect the entire world. And people generally (here and abroad, I'm sure), unfortunately, either are not or don't want to be as rational, open-minded or politically alert as they need to be to see through this for the BS that it is. They follow like sheep; they don't question, they don't make suggestions, they just vote like their parents did or in their immediate interests.

At least Spain got it right by voting out the manipulative bastards trying to turn a tragedy into a political win. I'm just hoping that I'm proven wrong about all of this.

@ Yirimyah: I'd like to be more positive about it, but the last two federal elections have soured me on people generally. The fact that Australia's involvement in Iraq is minor is irrelevant to me; the fact that we're there at all is something I'm concerned over. It's harder for me to stand up for Australia when I feel like it's degenerated into a purely self-interested nation. I didn't know whether to laugh or scream when I heard that the Tasmanian loggers were going to protest-vote for the Liberals; sure, they'll protect less forest, but they'll also shove through every industrial reform bill they've been plugging FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS!

/me takes deep breath, steps off soapbox

[Edited: Relevance]

[ October 26, 2004, 03:23: Message edited by: NonSequitur ]

 

I have little doubt that Kerry will win. Bush will have the South, but Kerry seems to have a stranglehold on Florida, a crucial state, whereas Bush's blunders and poor form on the debates is shaking the undecided voters up a bit, making them think twice about staying home. I predict that Bush wins popular, Kerry wins electoral. That's the best we can hope for, I guess...

 

Terrorisim, and fear in general, promotes the development of right-wing militaristic governments.

@NonSequitur: At a local church:

"Come to me all ye who are Labor and I will give you rest"
Jesus - sort of!

I could not believe the Tasmanian loggers protest-vote either. IMO, Tasmania's biggest asset in re tourisim is those forests that John Howard will have chopped down. At least loggers won't be able to protest-vote en masse again- they will have practically no union to coordinate it.

"Tassie? Flatten the damn place"- Margy Stone.

(this is about the Australian election. Similar to the US one, only we arent gonna invade anywhere and so nobody cares. The right wing candidate (John Howard, aka "bonsai", because he's a little Bush) won BTW.)