Policing North Korea

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Does anyone else find it odd that, a few days ago, China, Japan, and South Korea refused to participate in multi-lateral discussions with North Korea? It seems that they would rather have the US address this issue alone.

Well, as an American, I would LOVE to hear our diplomats say "Fine! If you don't think North Korea poses a threat, then we're outta here. Just don't come crying to us when North Korean missiles land in your backyard."

So how many countries really mean it when they say that the US should stop playing international policeman?

 

There is a phenomenon called "Finladisation" in reference of neutral Finland in the shadow it its big bad neighbour russia and its timid (for a good reason) politics over the cold war era.

Japan is within range of north korean missiles, more, as a result of traditional antipathies and cruelties in WW-II and before the koreans and japanese don't like each other too much. Even more as japan never found it necessary to apologise for that. I remember I read about a travel advice for japanese businessmen travelling to europe, along the lines it was: Dress well to prevent to be taken for a korean. Koreans in japan are citizens 2nd class.

China has very little influence on his inpredictable neighbour and is, just like japan, in range of koreas missiles. Even though it could retaliate in kind it isn't at all keen on getting its cities shelled, or better, missiled. It also has no interest in a confrontation along the rugged china-korean border.

South-Korea is just as well in range of north koreas army, it's capitol well within range of a couple of thousand artillery pieces. It practices sunshine politics as it doesn't want confrontation - the effects would be devastating and ruinous, not to mention the high civilian losses in a war. They know what they are afraid of.
Also there are voices in korea that see the northern nuke program as a display of korean pride and skill. It is likely that after a reunification korea would even continue that program - which would clearly turn japan into a nuclear power within a year.

Great prospects. The US only have a few tensthousand soldiers at risk - they have the least to loose, making them the ideal diplomats over there as they also have something to threaten the north with.

 

its not japan or china that NK want to hurt, its america and so they dont have to address the issue.
like before, japan and china are nuclear powers, so NK wont nuke them because they will nuke them back, not to mention that china is NK's primary supporter and closest ally, they are probably the only reason america hasnt invaded NK, NK know this so they arent going to remove that obstacle.

 

Shoshino,

How is it that you claim to be from the UK, but yet you butcher the English language worse than my 5 year old son?

Is English not your native language?

I don't mean to attack you, but you need to realize that half the time I have to read what you type 3 or more times just to figure out what it really means. There are probably a lot of people who never understand what you are saying, or even worse, misunderstand it. It really isn't that hard to push the [shift] key when you start a sentence. You also need to spend a little time learning about subject verb agreement.

Again, I am not attacking you, but many people feel that a person's grammar is an indication of their intelligence.

 

Those same people are the ones who you point at and mutter imbecile behind their backs, but I agree use shift, grammar and punctuation. I just scan the articles and if I can't read something the first time I go on to the next one, if you want to be heard you have to speak clearly. Generally I have a limited understanding of the issue but my general policy is to back out of thigs between others and let them sort it out among themselves.

 

i read and write 6 languages, english is by far my least favourite, as ive said before, im not going to waste my time writing an english essay everytime i want to post something on a backwater message board.

the paragraph reads perfectly fine, maybe its a problem with you if you cant differentiate between the words for the simple miss of capital letters and apostrophies.

"but many people feel that a person's grammar is an indication of their intelligence"
if i cared what people thought about me, i probably wouldnt be debating the US at all.

 

You think this is a backwater message board? Thats just idiotical. This is the most well-originized board on the net and it is also the best totally out. Why don't you go and start posting in a not-backwater message board and leave us alone here?

 

"You think this is a backwater message board? Thats just idiotical. This is the most well-originized board on the net and it is also the best totally out. "
~laughs~ well, someone has locked themself in a box.

"Why don't you go and start posting in a not-backwater message board and leave us alone here? "
dont worry, im leaving on monday, so youll be without me for a month or so.... unless war breaks out.

 

IIRC, Japan is NOT a nuclear power at the moment. They may have some reactors, but they have no missiles.

I doubt N. Korea could seriously damage the US, even if they have a missile capable of hitting the West Coast. They can, however, threaten American allies and interests abroad, and they do -- I believe they said that if the U.S. engaged in any aggression, they would turn Tokyo into a "sea of fire". You'd think the Japanese and S. Korean governments would be a little more supportive of the Americans, though. I mean, the prosperity involved with the U.S. is a far better option that the poverty that results from communist control -- I mean, N. Korea may be getting nuclear power, but its standard of living is pathetic for the average citizen.

 

Excuse me, but no one has addressed the original issue. Everyone complains about the US meddling and acting as world police -- until they have a problem in their own backyard. Then all of a sudden they're angry if the US doesn't get involved enough.

I don't usually "attack" people, but I do feel compelled to say this. Shoshino, if you don't care enough to do it right, don't do it at all. Posting something intelligible is not wasting your time. It doesn't take me half an hour to figure out how to write my sentences grammatically; I'm sure if you are as intelligent as you say you are, it won't cost you that much effort either.

To respond to your comments, I'd like to point out that it IS Japan who feels most threatened by N. Korea, as others have stated. Also, China is not being particularly supportive of N. Korea now; they're quite unhappy about the nuclear program being restarted. And the "nuke me, I nuke you back" discouragement would apply more to the US than to either China or Japan. So, again: why should we get involved?

 

BTA, Japan has a couple of nuclear warheads. Count on it. They are the most secret of the secret of the secrets, just because if word ever got out, the Japanese would go Nuking Futz (aside from the cane we would raise over it). Until the Emperor told them to shut up, but there would be that 24 hours of Futzing. They also have several nuclear power plants.

Anyways, I wish the United States of America would just mind it's own business.

 

As BTA says, the States could mind its own business, but the rest of the world would be crying and begging for assistance. "You're the most powerful nation on the planet, it's your RESPONSIBILITY to help those less fortunate, but don't think at all, just do as we tell you and give us bales of money and then go home." No sane country would stand to be treated that way, and to expect the US to do so is ludicrous. My only feeling is that the US should try ever harder to export democracy to places that don't have it. Say what you like about democracy and capitalism, it is still a superior system than the alternatives (repressive, reactionary Islam, the thoroughly discredited Communist experiment, etc).

And in a nuclear world, when a big device could have repercussions on countries on the other side of the world, the US can't afford to mind its own business as suggested.

Looking at Japan and Germany, it would seem that one of the best things for a country's economy and standard of living is to be conquered (at least in part, in Germany's case) by the Americans. All reports from Iraqi expatriates that I've ever read state that they'd like nothing better than the US to overthrow Saddam's regime and help to set up a sane political and social system in Iraq.

 

@Shoshino: Your original post seems to claim that NK won't strike against Japan or China because of the fear of nuclear retailiation, yet that they don't have this fear with respect to the US. Why might that be? Also, as far as I know, NK doesn't have a delivery system that makes actual US soil a target (except for military bases in the region, like Okinawa), so how would they go about "hurting" the US without causing far worse collateral damage on the friends and neighbors you say that NK doesn't want to involve?

And as BTA points out below, Japan has nuclear power plants but not nuclear weapons. There's a huge difference, as was thoroughly drilled into my head while studying for my BS degree in Nuclear Engineering!

@Ragusa: Excellent point. Thanks for that.

@Capstone, BTA, Depaara: Thanks for contributing the hard facts my original post was missing, and for keeping the question on target.

 

no, my point is that NK wont attack anyone, they want nuclear weapons so that they cannot be bullied like the US bullies many countries which arent nuclear powers.

"And as BTA points out below, Japan has nuclear power plants but not nuclear weapons"
japan does have nuclear weapons, but they cant make their own, they bought them from our dear friend the united states of america, 30 trident and 10 peacekeepers to be precise.

""You're the most powerful nation on the planet, it's your RESPONSIBILITY to help those less fortunate, but don't think at all, just do as we tell you and give us bales of money and then go home." No sane country would stand to be treated that way, and to expect the US to do so is ludicrous."
never going to happen, infact, it is more likely to happen to europe these days then the US because it is a well documented fact that europe spends more resources on foreign aid and peacekeeping then the US does, and these countries would love to get a piece of it.

"My only feeling is that the US should try ever harder to export democracy to places that don't have it."
the US doesnt have a very good history of exporting democracy.

"And in a nuclear world, when a big device could have repercussions on countries on the other side of the world, the US can't afford to mind its own business as suggested."
people are more worried about the US using nukes then any other country in the world, since the US has proven that they will use nuclear weapons on civillians in the past.

"Looking at Japan and Germany, it would seem that one of the best things for a country's economy and standard of living is to be conquered (at least in part, in Germany's case) by the Americans. "
lol, germany's economy was thriving long before an american soldier ever set foot in there, and japan's economy was fine until america levied sanctions against them, same goes for iraq. maybe economise only look better after america has fought a war with them because before the war the us destroys the economy with sanctions (a sly form of subterfuge), and then after the war they remove them and the country gets back to normal.

"All reports from Iraqi expatriates that I've ever read state that they'd like nothing better than the US to overthrow Saddam's regime and help to set up a sane political and social system in Iraq. "
all reports written by the US, whereas popular opinion in iraq is complete support for saddam.

 

Rallymama, I'm aware of the fundamental differences between a reactor and a weapon. Two entirely seperate processes in the refining of the fissionable material, alone.

I still tell you they have the actual weapons. Ready to go. They don't have many of them. But nonetheless, they reserve them back like any good samauri would.

 

the US sells nuclear weapons to many countries, including israel, japan, UK and Australia

 

true, isreal wouldnt have a nuclear weapon if it werent for the US, britain wouldnt have peacekeeper missiles if it werent for the US, aus and japan wouldnt be nuclear powers at all if it werent for the US.

the US doesnt abide by the non poliferation treaties, which has sparked the whole debate over the 'one law for the US, one law for the rest of the world' debate