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Piracy

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Vukodlak, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. Loreseeker

    Loreseeker A believer in knowledge Veteran

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    Once upon a time (some 4-5 years back :p ) all my games were pirated (and I have quite a few). Reason: I was a kid, originals were hard to find and expensive as hell, and there were almost legitimate shops selling pirated games, cheap. So I bought them, played them and had fun.

    Today, however the situation is different. I tend to buy games, mostly older titles that have a price that I can afford. The new ones I don't even consider buying - mostly because I would have to tell my parents how much I paid for them and some of the prices are way too steep (Lying is not an option :p ). So I don't.

    Also, like Vukodlak mentioned earlier, having less free time made me picky - I only play games I know I'll like. I used to play just about anything...

    So, my reason for pirating games was the usual one - originals were WAY to expensive for a kid with no salary.

    My music collection is legit - mostly because it's small and I'm far from being a dedicated music fan. Same goes for movies - never pirated any.

    Aik has a good point on textbooks. Every year I go to a book fair looking for good foreign (English) literature on organic chemistry and get more and more amazed with the prices those books fetch here. Not fair. :p
     
  2. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I think I said it before but the issue is way beyond right or wrong or even illegal or lawful. The pirates have already won the battle of distribution. People will still buy your product but only if they like it enough and here is the kicker, a lot more people can get an image of their own of your product thanks to piracy and then buy it. Copyright laws on any digitalized piece of information is obsolete whether you like it or not. This posts turns out to be quite similar to my previous one but this bugs me. It bugs me that the distributors of products spend their time alienating their consumers instead of working with them. So, people want their product downloaded to their computer without paying for it? Fine, how about we offer you our basic product for free but if you want our superpimpedultraroduct with extra cheese you have to pay a small fee. That works to some extent.

    They don't seem to understand how people work, if I can get a brand new car delivered to my house for free in a technically illegal way but where the risk of getting caught and punished would be as close to zero as I could get a whole lot of people will pick that option. Especially if the cars on the market are known to be unreliable and break down for no apparent reason even if you do pay for them.

    Yes sadly it seems that good singleplayer games on the computer are getting rarer but there are still some and that the future of computer gaming is subscription based online games but that is the way the wind is blowing. Good games will still sold, I have myself bought several games despite already having an illegal copy on my computer partly due to ease of patching and partly because I like the game enough to pay for it. I have yet to see any sound numbers of the industry actually losing money on piracy except in their minds.
     
  3. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I'll grant you this part...

    ... but this is really bordering on extreme paranoia. I don't really need to convince "many" because the overwhelming majority of people are not afraid to buy or do business online due the looming threat of identity theft. There are hundreds of real life, physical places which make it much easier to steal a part or whole identity from you than any reputable online places. Of course the media are consistently pounding on it because identity theft is a very personal and easily sellable fear (at least in America; around here identity theft is nearly non-existent), but to my knowledge, by far the #1 identity theft venues are people's dumpsters (or wherever you dump all the excess paper) and home break-ins where important documents/computers are stolen. There aren't any mass online identity theft opportunities unless you go out of your way to provide your personal information to stores or businesses which have no solid reputation. At worst your credit card information could be stolen, but all the decent credit card providers have you covered in case of such exploits. Most (none?) online stores don't require your SSN.

    How exactly was your sister hit with identity theft twice in a matter of weeks? And how could she lose all of her life savings because of it? (I'm of course very sorry to hear that...)

    Naturally if something that horrible had happened to any of us we could potentially develop a (possibly irrational) fear of the said crime, but let's face it, you put your life on the line every time you sit in a car, but few people let this fact influence them to the point that they refuse to travel by car. A good amount of carefulness when it comes to online transactions is naturally in order. But dismissing it all because of the potential for identity theft, which is almost certainly much lesser than offline, (unless you live in an impregnable vault, burn all your trash and always only pay with cash) is simply irrational.

    Sorry, but the only thing you can quote that for is BS. Try putting yourself in the shoes of someone whose livelihood depends on people not pirating their product, which means all but the biggest faceless multinationals. It's easy to console yourself that you're not doing any harm by pirating an EA game, but that doesn't even remotely apply to all game publishers. And that's just one example.

    I'm really sick and tired of people who think that just because something is on the Internet and easily available, it's ok to steal it, not feel any guilt about doing it and even brag to everyone else about it. It's the same deal with people who know that websites directly depend on the advertising income to survive and yet they have no problems installing advertising blockers and then bragging about it to your face. From my perspective, that means vandalizing (you don't have my permission to strip any advertising as you see fit), theft (using the content/downloads on the website without even the little compensation for it that advertising brings in) and finally spitting in my face by coming up with BS hippy/communist excuses how all online information should be free anyway.

    Yea, try that sentiment with your ISP or hosting provider and see if they'll agree to waive your bill. It's easy to subscribe to such "philosophical" principles when someone else is footing the bill for your actions.

    That IS entirely true, but it's nowhere near justification enough to just pirate it instead. If anyone who spouts that BS actually did what they preached or wanted to act on it in any way, they would boycott the publishers who use such DRM and use more customer-friendly alternatives (or only buy the DRM products after they were in the bargain bins). When all they do is just pirate them instead, the publishers write it off as "evil pirates who wouldn't buy our product even if it didn't have DRM" and the caravan goes on. Unfortunately there's way too much selfishness and hypocrisy in the anti-DRM "movement" for anyone to take it seriously.

    In real life, when you're not happy with the service at restaurant A, you don't keep breaking into the kitchen and stealing the meals instead, but you leave and give your business to restaurant B. THAT is the consequential language that makes a difference, because if enough people do it, restaurant A will either have to offer better service or bring in much less money / go bankrupt. The principle applies equally to all businesses.

    Now if only this point could be got across to the gaming masses...
     
  4. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I don't really care that much if some people pirate; I did it myself when I was young and without much money, though I never deluded myself into thinking it was right. I refuse to do it now because I have the money to pay for what I want and feel like I should not take somebody's hard work without their approval; I certainly wouldn't want somebody doing it to me if the roles were reversed.

    I am just amazed these days at how people think piracy is somehow justified. That because they can get something for free, it's OK if they do. I think as far as software is concerned it's partly that there is so much being given away for free today; in my younger days that was exceedingly rare. Now you can get just about anything you need for free if you look for it and much of it is very high quality. People who want software are lucky they can get all this great stuff for free, but it seems that rather than feel lucky, they feel entitled...

    The one argument from pirates that I really don't understand is: "Well I wouldn't have bought it anyway, so they didn't lose a sale from me." IMO, it's irrelevant if you wouldn't have bought it anyway. The fact is, you got something out of it without giving anything in return. If you didn't really want it, or weren't willing to pay the price asked for it, then do without it; obviously it was worth something to you because you bothered to take it and use it.

    The main thing to me is that pirates are essentially being subsidized by the people who are willing to pay for what they use. If everyone pirated, then very little would be made because everything has to be paid for in one way or another, and even that free software is being produced by someone who is getting paid for other work. So, that's why I don't really mind if there are a few pirates here and there who do it because they want a little enjoyment, but can't really afford it; I'm willing to subsidize that. But anyone who can afford to buy what they use who pirates is IMO taking advantage of other people, and is just plain selfish.

    EDIT:
    And the decent credit card providers now have "virtual" account numbers that are good only for a single vendor, and you can specify if it's good for only a single transaction or whether it's good for a series of transactions over a specified period of time up to a certain specified amount of money.
     
  5. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    There is one thing that bothers me about your views on blocking adds. While I fully see where you are coming from, are you willing to guarantee that no harm whatsoever will come to me or my computer by clicking on any of the adds in this place and are you willing to compensate any possible harm caused by any adds of this site? I have more than once clicked on a popup on a site accidentally while entering only to have the site I've been reconnected to try to implant spyware I most certainly did not agree to have on my computer. Of course then there's also the fact that the government and internet service providers recommend the usage of popup blockers while browsing. So it's not just illegal it's promoted by the government. Therefore it's somewhat difficult for me to find popup blockers unfair. It feels like saying that I would not be allowed to tune off my television set during the commercial breaks or switch channel but would rather be forced to see the commercials because I chose to see the actual show too.

    As for piracy itself, I think piracy is contributing greatly to why most games these days are piles of crap and killing the smaller genres and making games so horribly generic. However I support abandonware and think that it's very sad if old titles are just left to die without anyone selling them or distributing them onward. Therefore I fully support downloading titles with nonexistant commercial value. These titles would have to be some five years old at the very least and not sold by the owner of the original rights.

    My utter feeling of disgust is reserved for the idiots who pirate truly great games especially ones distributed by small developers. Even if it would be distributed by major multinationals a great product is still a great products and higher sales will encourage them to make more similar products. It's not like there's an overflow of truly great games these days. I also don't buy the "I can't afford it" BS. If someone can afford a top notch computer which runs all the modern games then they certainly have the money to buy a few games, it's not about money it's about selfish greed.
     
  6. Goli Ironhead Gems: 16/31
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    I do pirate some games. Bulk of them are the games that aren't sold any longer or that are very hard to find. Some of them are games that I owned but that have broken or gone missing already, as I feel no need to pay for something I already purchased once. Many of the games actually fall into both of the groups.
    Then there's the testing piracy. If I cannot test a new game that I'm intrested of at friend's or otherwise get a good look at it, I usually pirate it just to see what it's like and then decide if I actually want that game. If it's good, then I buy it sooner or later, because then it actually deserves money, but if it's bad, then I would have just wasted money buying it. Yes, I can read reviews and yes, I can see trailers and gameplay footage, but more than once I've noticed that a game that looked really good in the trailers and footage and got really great scores is actually a game I didn't like. Demos are perhaps the only thing I can seriously consider trusting, but even those usually demonstrate a small part of the game.
    Sure, it might lose the makers some money because I didn't buy a game I considered but then actually tested and found not to my liking, but I really don't see the need to support games I didn't like.

    Also, I tend to use cracks even when I legally buy games. You know cracks, those little things that can, say, make using the disc unnecessary or bypass the akward protections and registrations they have nowadays. I know what the said protections are for, namely to prevent me just handing the game to other people after I installed, but since I don't intend to use it that way in any case, it really doesn't matter.

    A bit off topic, as it's not related to video game piracy, but I was at Ropecon (the biggest roleplaying convention in the Nordic countries unless I'm mistaken) few weeks back, and I attended a lecture by Chris Pramas, the head of Green Ronin Publishing. Someone asked him what he thinks about the fact that .PDFs (that's the usual electronic format used for books, documents and other such things for those who don't know) of their games are being spread freely in the internet. He replied that they aren't too worried about that. His first point was that many people have actually bought the things they have pirated first, some actually testing the quality like this. And his second point was that not releasing PDFs would be completely futile, because those spreading them would still spread them, by scanning the books if necessary. At first they tried to stop the piracy, but then they realized it was both futile and not hurting them really (Or along those lines).
    Half of this isn't even comparable to video game piracy, but I thought it was an intresting thing to bring up, this coming from the head of a notable roleplaying game publishing company and all.
     
  7. Vukodlak Gems: 22/31
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    I think piracy is morally wrong (in the vast majority of cases anyway), but that it really doesn't matter. Piracy is happening, and developers and publishers are still losing money because of it. Maybe not as much as they claim (maybe nowhere near as much), but they lose out nonetheless.

    The reason I posted the article originally is that I think game publishers could learn something from polls like this. The measures so far introduced (DRM, copy protection, limited activation, prosecution of individual pirates) may be reasonably effective at reducing small-scale piracy (me lending a copy to a friend) but are completely ineffective at reducing general piracy (the cracked game appearing on torrents). I think it's time they looked at data like this and tired to get a handle on what else they could do to curb piracy.

    Now, many people (maybe the majority) download pirated games just because they are free. End of story. As long as that's easy and relatively consequence-free, they will continue doing it. And short of hunting them down individually, there is very little game companies could do about them. Could they do something about the others? Is there a way to turn them into paying customers?

    A lot of the complaints that seemingly drive people to piracy (and away from buying PC games in general) could be addressed. Convenience? Steam is doing great and is very reliable. Price? Perhaps bring down the price earlier - especially as more publishers deliver content electronically, and stop depending on retailers (whose profit margins are probably eating into the developers' much more than piracy). Lost discs? Give customers the option to re-download the game. Try before you buy? Make longer demos that are better at representing gameplay and will help determine if a game is playable on a particular system. Annoying DRM? Well that one is the easiest of all.

    I'm not saying that all of the above will be equally effective, but perhaps are worth experimenting with. I don't think PC gaming is dying, but it needs to change. And piracy won't stay off the consoles forever, so lessons probably need to be learned before the situation gets just as bad.
     
  8. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    Sorry, Ragusa, I should have been more clear. You are entirely correct in that as long as you don't change your hardware or reformat you don't lose an activation.

    Still, it is a completely inane system, and I hope they get rid of it as soon as possible. (Thankfully, I think Bioshock had it's system removed after a patch. If need be, I will have to crack Spore and Mass Effect.)
     
  9. Goli Ironhead Gems: 16/31
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    Actually, it's very easy to pirate console games as well, Vukodlak. There's an active community for that too.
     
  10. Vukodlak Gems: 22/31
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    I know, but it's nowhere near as prevalent as on PCs and is still quite tricky for the PS3. Won't stay like that forever though...
     
  11. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Of course I can't give you any guarantees over content that I'm not completely in control of and that I don't provide directly (our advertising providers are the only ones that could give you such guarantees); the majority of advertising is provided externally. I CAN almost guarantee you, however, that simply letting the advertising display will not harm you in any way. No one is required to click anything. If you do, that's an extra bonus, but you don't have to.

    I'm not sure which government and ISPs promote the use of software to block advertising (certainly ours don't), but various countries also condone mass piracy and copyright infringement but that still doesn't make it right. And we're not talking about just popup blockers here; these are part of all the browsers today anyway; but going out of your way to block every single ad on every page of every website. If it was just the popups it'd hardly be an issue.

    Also, your analogy is flawed; Internet and TV are completely different mediums. The equivalent of skipping commercials on TV is scrolling past the Internet ads or ignoring them, which most people do anyway. Not making sure that you see no trace of them anywhere.

    Well, there's always a problem with "nonexistant commercial value". Just because an IP isn't being actively sold in the form a computer game doesn't give everyone the right to distribute it freely. The same IP could be used in any number of ways later on. But generally, I do support abandonware, with some reservations (and definitely only when the games can't be bought anywhere any more).

    Exactly. Anyone who's got the means to be on the Internet daily and has the money to buy a computer good enough to run all of the games that they want to play could at the very least buy games from the bargain bin if not at the full price.

    That's nice, but if their sales start plummeting, do you think that they'll still hold that opinion? It's really a matter of whether you can afford to take piracy in stride or whether you're actually threatened by it. Green Ronin is big enough to be able to afford it - for now. I only hope that in the future as well. Most smaller publishers aren't.

    Well said.
     
  12. DCD Gems: 2/31
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    Off-topic...

    We aren't exactly sure, and I suppose this sort of "not knowing" would fuel paranoia. If one doesn't know how one was hit, one can't prevent the same thing from happening.

    All I do know is my sister rarely bought online stuff, but was a heavy debit car user. Credit cards weren't made out in her name though her credit card was charged, and her checking/savings account was tapped and then emptied after she had unfrozen her assets, with assurance from BoA they should be safe. The police suspect someone installed a device in a scanner to get her info when she swiped her debit card somewhere.

    I guess that since my sister is more "mainstream" than I am, that is, using online networking programs, college town businesses and the latest popular technology, she would be in the prime target of identity thieves seeking to attack the unaware (in comparison to myself, who dabbles in the dubious and dangerous of the dank digital domain!).
     
  13. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    As for broken and lost discs, Blizzard again show themselves to be an awesome developer. I quit WoW, kicked the habit but then the summer break came and I got bored. Finally caved in and decided to reinstall the game. Lo and behold my dvd drive is screwed, had some problems with it in the past but I was able to install the last game I tried to which wasnt that long ago. Anyhoo, you can download the complete game from their website without any hassle whatsoever. Sure you need an account to play (more than the 30 day free trial) but it shows that smart developers can make a bundle of cash using the technology instead of fighting it. Blizzard supplies a torrent themselves of their game. Now I am pretty sure that they won't put any serious protection on Starcraft 2 or Diablo III because they trust their consumer base enough to buy their products and of course if you want to play online you save a whole lot of hassle if you buy your own online id even for those games.

    Again, I do not put any moral over piracy, it exists and it won't disapear. That is a fact, fighting it must be counterproductive. They must work with the technology, not against it.
     
  14. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    If a software pirate is having trouble feeding his kids, he should be looking for another job, not wasting his time playing computer games.

    Just because people do it doesn't make it right.
     
  15. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Piracy is stealing. Time and money have been spent to develop the games. They are placed on the market and if people want them they should buy them. Shoplifting is illegal. Stealing something that belongs to me is illegal. I see no difference.

    Piracy is legally wrong and morally wrong. Whatever measures the game publishers take to try and prevent are justified. If the measures they take annoy you or your feel overprice the product don't buy it. The consumer votes with his wallet. I seldom buy a game when it first comes out. I normally purchase computer games from Amazon, sometimes they are direct and sometimes 3rd party but through Amazon. A few games I have purchased from other reliable sources.

    I doubt that there is anyway to stop piracy. Criminals will steal despite laws and penalties. Some will get caught and some won't. As far as I'm concertinaed anyone who pirates or knowomgly buys a pirated game deserves trouble.
     
  16. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    That's very unfortunate and we had such scams here a while ago too... they found out a Romanian criminal network had installed such scanners at various stores (sometimes with inside accomplices) and it took the police over a month to track them all down. Imagine the mass hysteria when thousands of people who bought from those stores over that period had to verify that everything was OK with their accounts and transfer to new accounts (worse still if their accounts had been emptied)...

    But that just goes to show that scams like that are easier to pull off in real life than online...
     
  17. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    The quickest solution to piracy?

    Stage I

    1. Scrap DRM.
    2. Drop lawsuits, prosecution and any other costly lawyering.
    3. Drop anti-piracy initiatives and all such costly PR.
    4. Drop the prices by the amount saved.

    Hint: You also save some time this way. Be happy with this extra or cut the prices a bit further, whatever.

    Stage II

    1. Treat customers well. Absolutely no "no replacement" policies, no poor quality CDs/DVDs that don't read well.
    2. No limits to reselling or giving away the game, sorry. No matter how you look at it, there is nothing wrongful in passing the game on.

    In short: no crap.

    3. Allow bare DVD, digital distribution and other channels to accommodate people's varying needs. If you make good collectors editions people will buy them anyway.

    Rationale: Some of those who buy pirates because they are skimpy and don't care for goodies, or because they don't have the money but can't resist the product, will go for bare DVD.

    Stage III

    1. Reduce prices quickly enough. If you prefer to sell high but little than to sell low but lots, that's just poor business making. Also, you gain nothing by keeping the price high. There's not even a PR advantage. If it's a pride matter, you may be proud of the amount of copies sold as well.

    Comment: There's a lot of people who will wait if that'll get them a better price, given the opportunity. There are many who take time to catch up with hardware. Remember that increased popularity creates opportunity for gain from popular merchandise. The more copies you sell, the more established your merchandise gets. Think sequels, gadgets, a setting for books and/or films, this kind of thing. One hundred thousand people buying for one hundred dollar is ten million dollar and a one hundred thousand customer base. Five hundred thousand people buying for twenty dollar is ten million dollar and a five hundred thousand customer base. If you know what to do with customer base, you know how to get cash from there.

    Stage IV

    1. See how much improvement in sales you get from reducing the price while supplying enough copies to meet the increased demand. Experiment a little.

    Outlawing piracy, putting up strict EULAs and pumping up prices is not the way to do business.

    Example: The Polish distributor, CD Projekt, at some point started thinking with its head and keeping the prices reasonable. Older games returned in budget series. After some time, prices of new releases simply lowered. You can very rarely find a new game costing as much as one did a couple of years ago. Some quite celebrated titles are first sold at what used to be a second price. The company has now released hundreds of titles, expanded into a neighbouring country, stamped out or absorbed the competition (even the competition probably gets more from joining than from resisting), launched a big Internet shop in which you can buy a lot more things than just games. This includes books, hardware, gadgets. There are more and more games in budget series and there's always a promo to reward you from buying two or three titles at the same time, such as a price reduction and/or free shipment. There's a permanent system of credits for each title bought, which you can use to buy more titles. Say you buy a budget game for 20 PLN, you get 5 PLN credit, which you can write off the price of a new game for 20 PLN - for which you will get 5 PLN credit. So you basically keep buying games for 15 PLN. With bigger prices, the cash percent saved can be higher than 25%. And somehow they're still growing and making cash and no pirate can compete.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2008
    Drew likes this.
  18. Merlanni

    Merlanni Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I agree in basic whit you, but to many human minds wiil fall for stealing.

    As long as people are willing to buy a 8800gtx ultra on release day and download every game possible the money option is not an excuse. Or the man running pc's for his 8 and 12 year old(And having two cars, caravan and holiday abroad who friendly says to me that i am mad to buy games.

    Internet providers must be forced to close down peer to peer. People spreading must be put in jail and illegal users fined. But tackling it from the software side in games giving them things like securom will not work. By the way I do not get were all the problems whit securom come from. I have no problems what so ever whit it, and like me millions more. If securom detects a program that is used by some for sneaky things, well...

    I like the way steam does it. I got a copy of the black box whit my video card and registered it. The games were on my HDD whitin two hours. That kind of distribution is the way to go, if you can buy whitout creditcard even better. You get updates, patches and a nice store to go whit it, and much more.

    We users must realize that we must help the gameindustry to get as many illegal copies out of circulation. No matter what excuse you use, it is still stealing.

    I am told that some laws that regulate media date back pre world war 1? Are they? If so there is a big problem but it is solvable.
     
  19. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] Securom screwups often occur if the game crashes weirdly :xx: Is why I can't play B&W2 anymore on this comp. I've also heard that it will count some trojans as 'sneaky programs' and stop working. I'm guessing that's more a case of people making malware for that purpose though :rolleyes:

    There are plenty of other things that can be said about it. But I'd rather not rant.
     
  20. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    Then you're not looking for one.

    Illegally downloading a game is not the same as grabbing a copy off the shelf and running home. In the latter case there is an actual loss suffered. In the former case there is not. If that's not clear enough, substitute 'data duplication' for 'downloading'.

    Which is not to say that piracy is wrong, but the notion that it's exactly the same as theft is simply incorrect.
     
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