Party ideas for non-powergaming replay

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As the title says, I'm planning to replay the game (with HoW and Trials). I am not really after a powergaming party, and therefore not really interested in ultimate firepower. Rather, I want something that I can have fun with. You'll notice there's quite a bit of spellcasting involved, and that's because I enjoy micromanaging my spellcasters.

I have a semi-clear idea of what I want, but have a few gaps to fill, and am therefore interested in your comments.

This is what I have in mind:
(note: all are multiclasses, no dual-classing involved)

1. Paladin
2. Fighter/Cleric
3. Fighter/Druid
4. Fighter/Thief
5. Bard
6. ?

I want both cleric and druid spells, and Ranger/Cleric is not considered because it does not give me full access to both the way it does in BG2 (and besides, I'm not a fan of Rangers). The Paladin is the party leader (high CHA), and the main hand-to-hand tank. Now, I'm wondering whether it's worth having a mage in the 6th slot in addition to the bard. While the high-level arcane spells are powerful, they're far harder to use than in BG2, since the area-effect spells all harm the party (including Horrid Wilting, unfortunately).

So, here are my questions:
1. who do I put in the 6th slot? Should I just go with 5 people?
2. If I add a mage, will I have enough scrolls to keep them both going? I know there's a scroll shortage in IWD2, making it very annoying to use 2 mages. Is this the case here too? Having a specialist mage seems like a good idea, since the bard can cover almost all the spells he'd lack (depending on the specialty)
3. Finally, which races should I pick? Paladin and Bard have to be humans, and the others can't be (for multiclassing purposes), but I'm not sure which race to give them, considering I'd like to use as many race-specific items as possible (on my last game I could use almost none!).

Any ideas are welcome. Particularly if they originate from Shrikant.

 

-Personally I would just gp with 5 people.
-The problem with scroll shortages is unfortunatly worse in IWD than it is in IWD II, imhi. As can be imagined, this says a lot... although there is a way around it. Give your bard every defensive spell (well, excluding the ones that grant high damage at a high level... the bard's experience table means he\she will advance much more quickly than a mage) and use him\her as a decoy fighter\spell-baiter to take some of the abuse away from your other fighters. This leaves your mage the ability to bombard and manipulate the battlefield from a distance.
-As for races, it doesn't really matter. Maybe have a nice spread of 2 Humans, a dwarf(fighter cleric), a halfling(if they allow for fighter\thief). Maybe use a gnome if you end up utilizing a mage, just dont make it an illusionist, as its role would be to attack, not hide.
-Do you know which alignments you will use? I found that more items had alignment restrictions that race restrictions.

Anyway, hope that this was helpful... even though it didn't originate from Shrikant

 

I'd take a mage in the sixth slot, but that's just me. I didn't find a scroll shortage. I gave them to the mage first, then the bard. You might want to try a F/M as I've seen an item or two only for F/M. Also, mix up the alignments. There are great items for evil only characters that make being evil more rewarding.

Races - pally has to be human. Bard can be a human or halfelf (who gets extra in PP ). I'd take a dwarf F/C, halfelf F/D (like there's a choice), a gnome F/T (there's a good helm waiting in Kuldahar for a gnome or halfling) and an elf F/M (if you want one).

This is all what I would do and looks too much like my first party in the game. Anyway, you're waiting to hear from Shrikant.

 

That was quick!

I hadn't thought of a fighter/mage, and it sounds like a great idea. Celesialraven's role-splitting is nifty, but I'm going to do things the other way round: the fighter/mage will rush to the front with defensive spells, buffs, and any good short-range spells I can find (I've never played a fighter/mage, so this will require a different approach than what I'm used to), while the Bard will sit in the back singing and hurling spells from a distance.

This is the revised party then:
Paladin: Human, Lawful Good
Fighter/Cleric: Dwarf, ???
Fighter/Druid: Half-elf, Neutral (kuemper, is this the only race that allows F/D?)
Fighter/Thief: Halfling, Chaotic Evil (I have something like the Feral Halflings from Dark Sun in mind)
Figher/Mage: Elf, Lawful Evil
Bard: half-elf (I thought they were human-only), Chaotic Good

The reason I'm indecisive about the F/C is that spell selection is to an extent dictated by alignment. I've got to check which spells are available to which alignment before I make any final decision.

Ideally it would have been fun to have one of each race, but that's not possible with this party build it seems.

Thanks for the input guys. I didn't mean to say your advice wasn't valuable. It's just that I have been berated in the past for questioning Shrikan't wisdom when it comes to all things Icewind Dale

 

Only humans and halfelves can be druids, so only halfelves can multiclass a druid.

If you want healing spells like Resurrect and Raise Dead, take a good aligned cleric (NG maybe). I think those are the 2 spells an evil cleric can't cast.

 

WTF!?! Thats what I get for posting too often?

If you are going to take an F/M, make sure to play on Insane. Normal play won't net you enough XP for the high levels.
Multiclasses cannot be specialised mages. But gnomes can only be Illusionists. Illusionists loose Necromancy and Abjuration spells, so be careful.

Your party could be:

Human Paladin
HalfElf Bard
Dwarf Fighter/Cleric
Halfling Fighter/Thief
Gnome Fighter/Illusionist
HalfElf Fighter/Druid (use DK to make this one Elf, if that won't crash the game)

I am sure everyone can cast Raise Dead. But it would always be better to make him good.

[ November 01, 2005, 14:57: Message edited by: Shrikant ]

 

Your fighter/thief should be halfling as Master Shrikant says.

 

Not very realistic role playing -- the Paladin would/should kill the evil members of the party (or just let them die in battle). Paladins do not associate with evil characters -- and only associate with neutral characters if it benefits the greater good.

You could always drop the paladin, take a gnome fighter, make your bard a human and voila you have every race. You did say non-powergaming -- a gnome fighter certainly falls into that category.

 

It wont crash. infact most playing around with races and classes will not make anything wrong at all. I have several times made elf bards and druids, as well as my infamous dwarf fighter/mage (dual classed) (with int score of 7) also had a couple of thief, dualclassed wizard illusionist elves etc. you can pretty much go wild with that stuff.

just dont touch those damn "special abilities" things. especially not those given from HoW (like rangers track skill............................)

 

Not that the IWD series has ever been famous for its role-playing potential
Seriously, the reason I want a Paladin is that I played the 1st time through without one, and want to try one out.

I'll probably take a Good cleric along. Evil is out of the question (I want Heal), and while it may seem life fun to have the "Cause" spells I'm not going to use them much, if at all. The only really god one among them is Harm, and I can't have Harm and Heal together.

I'm still undecided as far as the mage goes. Both Necromancy and Abjuration have some good spells in them, and not all of them will be covered by the Bard. But, I think I'll go for the Illusionist anyway. Aside from Jan I've never played Gnomes, so it may prove interesting.

So, here's (probably) my final build:
Human Paladin, Lawful Good
Dwarf Fighter/Cleric, Neutral Good
Half-Elf Fighter/Druid, True Neutral
Halfling Fighter/Thief, Chaotic Evil
Gnome Fighter/Illusionist, Lawful Evil
Elf Bard, Chaotic Neutral (using DK)

Shrikant, I was planning on playing on Insane anyway. On my first play through I was finding the game too easy, switched to Insane, and got the challenge I wanted!

Thanks for your contributions, everyone!

 

@T2Bruno:

I disagree. A gnome fighter would benefit the party far more than a paladin or ranger from a powergamer's point of view.

@ziad: What party did you use the first time and did you also play HoW than ?

 

Yes, I played HoW and Trials. As I mentionned before, I switched to Insane sometime in the Severed Hand (I was on Hard in Dragon's Eye). My party was rather dull, actually:
Human Fighter (melee)
Human Fighter 9 -> Druid
Elf Fighter (purely ranged)
Human Cleric
Halfling Thief
Elf Mage (no specialist)

Because I had HoW and was playing on Insane, the cleric and thief hit the cap relatively early, and the game became rather boring at one point, since half the party would stand back and do nothing while the three fighters chopped everything. That's the main reason I have almost everyone a fighter multiclass this time around. Also as you can see I didn't really experiment with races hence my desire to try other ones. Finally, I want a Paladin and a Bard because I kept finding items that I couldn't use.

Anyway, this game has unfortunately been put on hold for a few weeks as I go through Planescape
I'll get back to it eventually though, and that's definitely the party I'm using.

I'd like to thank everyone again for the input.

 

Right, I'm fresh out of defeating Torment once again (that was quick!) and am about to start this game. Before I create this party though I want to make sure of something: can an Elven Fighter/Mage wear any armor and still cast spells in this game? I seem to remember there's some Elven Chainmail in the Severed Hand (though I could be mixing up with IWD2). And would these also allow my Bard to cast spells in armor if he's a half-elf?

 

There's an elven chain in the Severed Hand. It works with a half-elf.

 

Race doesn't matter at all considering armor.

Bards can only wear the elven chains if they want to cast spells. There are 2 of them and both are random. In 4 of 9 games you'll find none(like in my first game), in 4 of 9 games you'll find 1 and in 1 of 9 games you'll find 2.
You can use powerword reload if you want (not fun but very powerful).

You can put off/on other armors during battles.

The shield spell lasts very long and gives AC4.

Multiclass mages can only cast mage spells if they are wearing elven chain, mage robes or no armor at all.

Since there are (unbalancing) great mage robes this shouldn't be a problem.

There is only one armor in the game which beats AC 0 (= shield spell + robe of enfusing + cloak/ring of protection +2).

 

I love the idea of a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist (my favorite 2nd Edition character)!

You don't have to worry about missing any spells, because you have a Bard for that. Additionally, there aren't any 9th level spells that an Illusionist can't cast (the only level of Mage spells a Bard doesn't have access to). Since you're an Illusionist, you gain an extra spell per day, which helps offset the less spells you have access to as a multiclassed character when compared to a singleclassed Mage.

 

Too late, I've already gone for an elven Fighter/Mage. But now that you put it this way I should have gone for the Gnome

I've just come across my first "unbalancing mage robe". I think it was the Robe of Enfusing in fact. It's stold by Orrick, has AC 2 (!), and costs 20000 gold. Needless to say it'll have to wait for some time!

As Kuemper had predicted, Mage scrolls aren't a problem until now. There's good spells all over the place, and I can always (eventually) buy the ones I don't find in multiple copies from Orrick. I am not quite following Kuemper's advice however, since I'm giving scrolls to the Bard first, simply because he's advancing as a spellcaster faster than the Fighter/Mage (I never realised just how quickly Rogues gain levels in this game).

Until now the game has been relatively easy on Insane. The only character that tends to die on me is the Bard. Everyone else has a lot of staying power (even the Fighter/Mage!), and I'm chopping through the Vale of Shadows without a pause. I had never realised how powerful multiclassing is in this game, it's even more destructive than in BG2!

I'm not using the Priest's spells much other than healing for now, but I know some good ones will show up at higher levels.

I'll update this if something noteworthy occurs.

 

You can still replace your F/M with a F/I. A few thousand XP won't matter in the long run, but the AC bonus from the helm and the extra spells will. You can even start a solo game with the F/I and export him after a few Easthaven quests.

Keep in mind that you can't buy the Robe of Enfusing and the even more useful Clasp of Bron's Cloak any more after you have started chapter2 since Orrick's inventar will change after that (it will change again at chapter4 start).

You can find another Robe of Enfusing in the first floor of Dragon's Eye if you are unlucky, if you're lucky you'll find a potion which grants MR instead.

You will find an AC6 robe in chapter2 and an AC3 robe in chapter6, all are considered nonmagical and grant extra bonusses.

Insane is easier than normal on the long run, since you'll gain levels much faster.
If you want a challenge than don't create characters who have more than 14 in more than one stat.

[ November 19, 2005, 21:48: Message edited by: kmonster ]

 

I don't want to make the game THAT hard!

Thanks for reminding me about Orrick's inventory changes, I had forgotten that the old items go away entirely. I'll need to amass lots of money quickly.

 

I've just completed the game I'd started a while back. For a refresher this was my party:

Human Paladin
Dwarf Fighter/Cleric
Half-Elf Fighter/Druid
Halfling Fighter/Thief
Elf Fighter/Mage
Half-Elf Bard

I was playing through IWD+How+TotL on Insane, and thought it would be quite a challenge. In a way, it was far easier than I thought. This party is almost unbeatable. I had expected the multiclassing would render most of the characters too weak to fight heavy melee battles, but it did not. On the contraty, being able to send in my F/M with Blur, Mirror Image and Stone Skin made him more of a killing machine than the Paladin (who in my initial plan was to be the main tank).

In fact this is the first time I play through an IE game without one main tank. You could say that everyone in the party (well, except the Bard) was a tank. Playing on Insane and racking up double the XP makes up for the XP splitting that occurs as a result of multiclassing, and I never felt I was too low level for an area. This is also the first time I use a F/T (except with Annah in Torment), and the first time I actually use backstab properly. I'm simply shocked at how powerful backstab is, especially when two people in the party can cast Invisbility over and over again.

Having everyone multiclassed also gave me lots of versatility. Once I entered an area, I could either go on an all-spell spree, or hack through everything in sight. The builds I had easily allow either approach to work marvelously well.

I'd never tried a Bard before. They're pretty weak at first, then become ridiculously powerful at level 11, simply because of the War Chant of Sith. Once I got it, I simply didn't need healing spells. I had my Priests memorize buffing spells instead (with a few healing spells as backup). Combining Prayer with Prot from Evil and the War Chant makes the characters almost untouchable.

All in all it was a LOT of fun. I'm a spellcaster at heart, but some areas can get tedious with enemies that have magic resistance and high saves. With this party I could throw spells to my heart's content and switch to melee whenever I wanted. I also spread ranged proficiencies around, and could take out many enemies from afar in certain areas.

I'd like to thank everyone for their ideas and insights.

On to IWD2 now...