Party Advice Sought

Remove all ads!

Hi there. I’m a first time poster but long-time lurker and I’m (surprise) looking for help with my IWD2 party.

I’ve started the game several times but never get much past the ford before the games die of inertia. I thought a “theme” party might help, so here is the Fantasy All-Star Party. (There were three rules for character inclusion: be from books/shows/movies I liked, only 1 character per author and no Tolkien characters since I already did a Tolkien IWD1 party)

Note: this party is for Normal mode only, and will never go to HOF.

Paksenarrion: LG Aasimar Paladin X/Fighter ? 14-12-16-8-12-18 (from Elizabeth Moon’s Deed of Paksenarrion series).
She’s actually a human in the books, but she does end up with her god’s holy symbol on her forehead, so that’s enough of an excuse to make her an Aasimar in the game. She really should start as a fighter and switch to paladin, but I’m not sure that’s possible.

Ahira Bandylegs: CG Shield Dwarf Barbarian X/Fighter? 18-12-20-8-10-8 (from Joel Rosenberg’s Guardians of the Flame series).
He has to be a barbarian since he goes berserk in the books. Standard axe/hammer user.

Garth: TN Half-Orc Fighter X 20-10-18-8-10-8 (from Lawrence Watt-Evans’ Lords of Dus series).
Technically Garth is an “overman”, but half-orc seemed close enough. He’ll be chopping things with a two-handed sword, just like in the books.

Aphrael: CG Aasimar Cleric (Silverstar of Selune) X 10-14-12-20-14 (from The Elenium and The Tamuli series by David Eddings).
Being an Aasimar is actually a step down for her, since she’s a goddess in the books. Silverstar of Selune seemed to fit her temperament best. Cleric was by far the hardest class to find a suitable character for, since I’m not fond of the official D&D books. So I’m open to other suggestions here. Does her being the only divine caster doom the party?

Eilonwy NG Human Sorceress X 8-14-12-14-10-18
Or
NG Human Enchantress X 8-16-12-18-10-16 (from The Chronicles of Prydain by the late, lamented Lloyd Alexander).
She’s called an “enchantress” in the books, but has very little magical training, so I think either class fits. She’s the only arcane spellcaster, so I need to get her right.

I’m torn between two choices on the final slot:

Gray Mouser CN Human Rogue X/Fighter X 12-18-14-16-10-6 (from Fritz Leiber’s Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories)
or
Robin Hood CG Human Rogue X/Ranger X 12-18-14-16-8-8 (from English legends and the Robin of Sherwood television series)

Basically, Mouser gets more feats but has to spend some on ambidextrous and two-weapon fighting, which Robin gets for free. Also, Robin gets to improve his sneaky skill even when leveling up as ranger. I’d honestly prefer Gray Mouser, but I’m not sure if he’ll be better over the long run. Unless I just call make him a ranger/rogue but never give him woodsy skills. I know they’d both benefit from a switch to Tiefling, but that would be hard to justify. (and I know Mouser should have 1 level of wizard, but that makes him a bit too complicated)

Thoughts? Critiques? Mocking?

 

Looks like a perfectly good normal mode party to me. If you know what spells you want to cast, I'd suggest a sorcerer. And there's no reason that you cannot have a sorceror who has a strong focus on enchantment spells. Something to consider is that spell scrolls are often a tad difficult to come by in IWD2, thus making sorcerers a good choice, sicne they don't need scrolls.

Does having only 1 divine spellcaster "doom" your party? Hell no. (I've played many a successful party with only a single serious divine spellcaster, not counting any pally or rangers that might be in the party.) But she's definitely not going to be wanting to go anywhere near the front lines with those stats. Give her a good sling or crossbow and hide her behind all those strong tanks.


I think that I would suggest letting your paladin be pure class. Multiclassing in fighter levels is of relatively questionable value and if you stick with a pure class pally, you'll evenually gain some pally spells that will be a nice little suppliment to your cleric. But, yes, you can start your pally as a fighter then switch to pally. Just be sure to have a LG alignment, and when you take the pally of Helm kit, so that you can switch back and forth (between pally and fighter) if you so choose.


Either one of your 6th characters will be just fine. A 16 INT may be a smidge high for a ftr/rogue or ranger/rogue. 14 is usually sufficient for any rogue MC, except for a mage/rogue. The Ftr/rogue will get you a few more feats, while the ranger/rogue will get you more skill points to spend on your rogue-ish skills. Your call.

 

I'd suggest Paladin X/Monk 1 unless you really want weapon specialization, one Monk level gives Evasion and bonus to saves which are great for a pally (Monk Evasion works when a character is wearing a suit of armour). I really like combining Monk and Paladin for a holy warrior.

As for Gray Mouser or Robin Hood, I'd suggest taking only 4 Fighter levels to get weapon specialization or 1 Ranger level to get ambidexterity and two weapon fighting (the Fighter would receive enough feats to take it as well) but if you want your sneak attacks to be effective you need to get as many Rogue levels as you can.

I'd keep the Barbarian pure, you don't get much from Fighter levels and it would be better to get greater rage and damage reduction before the game ends.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

I can't really give Paks a level of monk if I'm trying to stick to the theme, but I'll keep her a pure pally and Ahira a pure barbarian. That should keep them different enough from Garth and each other to stay interesting.

I was leaning towards making Eilonwy a sorcerer, so I'll go with that. I'd forgotten that scrolls can be scarce in IWD 2.

Will the extra feats a fighter get balance out the free ones a ranger starts with?

About sneak attacks - I've never really used them in any infinity engine game because I'm always worried the poor rogue will be butchered before help arrives if he botches the attack. Also, most of the fighting he does won't involve sneak attacks, so I don't know if it's best to design him for a situation he won't be in that often. (my playing style is very simple - hit them in the head until they fall down)

 

Beetle, sneak attacks aren't really the same as backstabbing. You don't need to "wait" for the reinforcements to arrive. You can effectively SA even after the melee has been joined. Just let the melee begin, then have your rogue run around to the back of the enemy's melee wall and start stabbing each baddy, one right after the other. You don't need to stay in place and risk getting overwhelmed. Sneak attacking is great for hit and run attacks in the middle of an ongoing battle.

Heck, a pure rogue can be a sneak attacking monster without ever having to perform a more traditional "backstabbing" style of attack. A pure or nearly pure rogue can be devastatingly effective by merely using hit and run tactics behind the enemy's melee wall. Of course, it doesn't hurt to use stealth and invisibility from time to time, and trying to sneak attack the enemy's spellcasters.

Sneak attacking can be a potent weapon if used properly.


"Will the extra feats a fighter get balance out the free ones a ranger starts with?" it depends on how many fighter levels you take. If you take 4 ftr levels, you'll probably effectively end up with one more feat than the 2 virtual ones that you get for taking 1 level of ranger. OTOH, with the rogue X/ranger 1, you'll have more skill points and you'll have more rogue levels (thus, 1 or 2 more sneak attack dice). It should be noted that weapon specialization (i.e. 3 feat points in a weapon) is hardly the end-all and be-all. Frankly, if you choose to be a big time sneak attacker, you'll want the extra SA dice. OTOH, if sheak attacking isn't your bag, then perhaps the ftr/rogue would bea better option. I've played both and have no strong opinion either way. It largely depends on how intend to play the character.

 

I think I may go with Gray Mouser as Rogue X/Ranger 1 (or very little) and try sneak attacking. Weapon Specialization doesn't thrill me, but I thought the extra feats might be more useful. I'll also drop Mouser's Int by 2 and add it to Con to make up some of the hit point difference.

 

While I've always been a fan of having a back-up divine caster in all the IE games, it is certainly possible to play through without a second. This is especially true as you'll not be multi-classing with the character. It is kinda a shame that she'll be suffering level adjustment penalties though.

Agreement here too. I'm one of those who don't really see the point of multi-classing a paladin. The spells later on more than make up for the fighter levels you could have taken.

Crucis and I seem to be thinking along many of the same lines in this thread. Single class rogues are the subject of much criticism, but I've found having one to be really useful. The last time I played through IWD2, my rogue had a significant share of the parties kills and was somehow one of the toughest characters in the group.

Roflmfao!!!!1! lolzrs!!!! ur party is teh suxx0rs!!!111

Well, you did ask.

 

Welcome to SP , that party looks fine. If anything I'd take out one of the melee classes and stick in a druid but thats probably just my playing style, you'll have a little extra healing and more versatility but then again if you lose your Pala you might struggle to tank.

 

I'm a power gamer, so please take my suggestions with a grain of salt with regard to Role Playing. Also, my advice is more applicable to playing through HoF mode since multi-classing blows during the early portion of the game.

Paksenarrion can and should take fighter first. You get the extra feat and you can freely multiclass to paladin. Only multiclassing to a different class affects paladin. The first class will never have an effect on multiclassing to paladin as long as you're lawful good. However, starting say, Bard->Paladin->BACK TO bard, will prevent further paladin since you're now "multi-classing". You also might consider going:2 Paladin, then cycle cleric and fighter levels for melee capability w/ low level cleric support. Progression cycle as follows:
Start - 1 Fighter
+2 Paladin
+2 Cleric
+1 Fighter
+1 Cleric
+1 Fighter
And so on.

Garth should take 4 levels of fighter, then continue the rest barbarian.

Aphrael's fine.

Eilonwy as a sorceress if fine. As an enchanter, add 1 level of sorcerer for the benefits of a specialized wizard, but access to all spells.

Gray Mouser has the potential for a high armor, decoy class WITH wizarding capabilities:
1 Monk/2 Rogue/2 Ranger/2 Dreadmaster/2 Fighter/1 Sorcerer/20 Transmuter. (Based on the JUPP guide. Ideally this would be a deep gnome, but I'm assuming you want a human.)

Dunno the book, but Role-Playing wise, Gray Mouser is a 2 wielding melee character. Here's hopefully a more "in-character" build:

4 Wizard (For mirror image, and capitalize on 13 Int for Expertise)
4 Fighter (Weapon Specialization)
3 Monk (Wis AC Bonus)
3 Ranger (Dual Wield)
3 Rogue (Sneak attack, Characterization, Armor Headband)

These are base levels. As a human, pick one class and take it to the max. Monk levels must be taken first or 2nd.

 

@DrEm314: no offence, but Bards can't be LG (without the Ease of Use mod) AND in normal game you won't get to level 30 (unless soloing and level squatting, using mules etc). Fighter levels for a Barbarian might look good on a level 30 build but if you want Greater Rage before the end of the game in Normal Mode it's not that great.

 

Oops, about the bard, that was just meant to be an example. I was mainly trying to be lazy and pick a class that isn't favored by Paladins. So replace Bard with Rogue and the example still works.

Straight barbarian levels are ok, but I personally prefer access to heavy armor and 2 extra feats and weapon specialization, which opens the road to maximized attacks.

These are all debatable. But whatever's more fun works.

 

Maximized attacks last 10 seconds once a day which isn't too shabby but a Barbarian gets Greater Rage (level 15) and damage reduction (level 11) which gets better at higher levels.

The point about armours is valid although you don't get many good heavy armours in the unmodded game.

Choosing between a Barbarian 15 or a Fighter 4/Barbarian 11 is really a matter of choice.

I'm a multiclassing freak still in that game many classes are much more effective if they are kept pure (spellcasters, rogues and barbarians mainly).

OTOH adding a single level of ranger, paladin, monk or barbarian can nicely complete a build and make it more effective. Levelling up evenly in two different classes is the best way to cripple a character.

 

Well, I made the party by along the lines of what I said on the 14th. They whistled through Targos with ease and freed the captured villagers at the Ford without much trouble. Sneak attacking has been a revelation (Gray Mouser rocks).

Then I realized that since I'm a complete idiot, I had forgotten to actually patch the game after I reinstalled it. So, now everybody's been recreated and is back at the Targos docks while I summon the will to slog through the Ford again.

At least this time I'll remember to have Eilonwy and not Paks do the talking any time there's a chance to get paid...

The more powergaming suggestions look interesting, but that's not really my style. Also, I'm trying to stay somewhat true to the characters as they were originally written (but that didn't stop me from making Mouser a tiefling)

 

If you go with the Grey Mouser, a few Wizard levels are appropriate.