Paladin/CoT Tweakage

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(NOTE: This build is being designed for SoU/HotU)
I need the opinions and advice of some pallies out there. I’m confused about a few things.

How useful is the paladin spell line, in comparison with Weapon Spec/Epic Weapon Spec? I have to choose one or the other. I know I really like the idea of Holy Sword.

I’m planning on going with Greatswords for all of the spec/focus/crit feats I take. Is this wise?

I basically have several options I’m considering for my Paladin/CoT, but please feel free to enlighten me with your own ideas. This is all based off of Torias’ Divine Warrior build.

1)Paladin/CoT
14 STR, 10 DEX, 14 CON, 10 INT, 14 WIS, 15 CHA
I can take full advantage of the paladin’s spells, and I get the Divine feats, as well as Extra Turning/Smiting, early.
1 Paladin Power Attack, Weapon Focus (or take Luck of Heroes and postpone one of the others)
2 Paladin
3 Paladin Divine Might
4 Paladin
5 Paladin
6 Paladin Divine Sheild
7 Paladin
8 Champion of Torm
9 Paladin Extra Turning
10 Champion of Torm Cleave

2)Fighter (4)/Paladin/CoT
14 STR, 10 DEX, 14 CON, 10 INT, 14 WIS, 15CHA
I take Weapon Spec, and I get fighter bonus feats much earlier then if I waited to get those same feats with CoT.
1 Fighter Luck of Heroes, Power Attack, Weapon Focus
2 Fighter Cleave
3 Paladin Lightning Reflexes
4 Paladin
5 Fighter
6 Paladin Divine Might
7 Fighter Weapon Specialisation
8 Champion of Torm
9 Paladin Divine Shield
10 Champion of Torm Improved Critical

3)Fighter (8)/Paladin/CoT
14 STR, 10 DEX, 14 CON, 10 INT, 12 WIS, 16 CHA
(Divine Warrior) First 10 levels, are same as above. Wth this build I get even less spell access, In exchange for Epic Weapon Spec (stacked with Weapon Spec, damage bonus is now +6)

[ April 01, 2004, 08:17: Message edited by: Jatsu ]

 

IMO Paladins get screwed when taking the CoT pres. The abilities the champion gets, that are similar to the paladin's aren't given twice. You get nothing, NOTHING at those levels. Waste...

 

Forgive me for dusting off such an old thread, but the last post in this thread makes me nervous.

My manual says that a paladin and COT's lay on hands abilities stack. Can someone tell me whether that's true or not. Also, does smiting damage stack? Finally, the divine warrior build alluded to early in the thread mentions an (epic?) feat named Great Smite. Again, this feat does not appear in my manual. Can someone tell me what benefit it confers?

 

Smiting and laying hands stack. Divine Grace doesn't -- you just get a +1 if you're a paladin. Paladin spells are way superior to Specialisation. You can get +5 to hit and +5 to damage as a level 1 spell on level 15 from Divine Favour. Then there are other spells to improve your to hit bonus and damage, not only this one. Like Deafening Clang (+1 to hit, +2 to damage). Or Holy Avenger (adds +5 to hit, some 2d6 to damage against evil and Dispel Magic on hit to your weapon.

Edit: Divine Might damage also stacks with that damage. While it's true that both classes need Charisma anyway, your being a paladin before or not doesn't matter for your CoT Divine Might damage. For your paladin, getting CoT levels doesn't change that, either.

What I know is that epic paladins don't get any more spells. Or anything. Just a bonus feat every 3 or 4 levels and epic saves. Taking a different class probably pays better if you're going to go up to level 40. Normally, you get like 26 or 27, so you might actually get something from adding CoT levels after level 20. CoT gets bonus feats and you can select epic feats for that, apart from fighter bonus feats (except specialisation). IMHO that's great. Getting fighter levels isn't really as great, I suppose. Maybe Weaponmaster if you meet the requirements. A couple of cleric levels, especially for some domain powers perhaps. But CoT is probably still your best choice, followed by straight epic paladin for the sake of it.

[ June 26, 2005, 22:49: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Well, you really only need a few paladin levels to get the nessicary buffs and feats. Then take the rest in CoT, maybe 5 WM for increased multiplier (crits)

 

Deafening clang doesn't work on magic weapons, though, does it? Now... holy avenger
Anyway, specialization is nice, but I tend to favor paladins with 2-handed sword to get the max from all their buffs. Still, epic specialization is nothing to sneer at...
I'd still go with paladin+CoT - both their bonuses are Cha-dependent. It might be interesting to add in a few Cleric levels to the mix - some domain powers are charisma-dependent, and extra spells are also useful, and generally beat the paladin ones. Turning stacks, right?

 

Holy Avenger works on magical weapons. I'm only not sure if it increases your weapon's to hit bonus to +5 or if it adds 5 on top of what you already have. I'm sure Deafening Clang's damage works, not sure about the to hit bonus.

Between Cleric levels and CoT levels, the choice depends on what you want to stack. CoT stacks laying on hands, smiting damage and that's probably it. Cleric levels stack turning undead. Depending on the domain, smiting might even also stack. Look on the list of domain powers and choose what you like, for example turning outsiders along with the undead, improved healing, improved power against the undead, some other stuff.

 

Holy avenger gives a +5 enchantment bonus, it wont stack with nothing other like it... deafening clang damage bonus goes, but (if i remember correctly) it's, just as holy avenger, a weapon enchantment, the attack bonus wont stack.

Paladin and CoT are often "used" with multiclassing to get the abilities, like the paladins charisma based saving throws or divine might. While CoT is pretty much a fighter with smite and better saves.

 

Doesn't Holy Avenger actually give you +5 to hit, rather than merely enchantment?

 

Oh yeah, they changed it... no idea about the details of it now.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys. After playing this game for 4 hours a day, I've gotten my character to Pally 15/COT 2. In the OC he rocks! AC of 45 (55 with divine shield), unmatchable saving throws, 5 attacks per rd (boots of speed) at 23-44 pts of dmg per strike without criticals (more with smite). I wouldn't want to play in a low magic world with him though.