Overrated / underrated weapons

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What, in your opinion, are the most overrated and underrated weapons. Here are my choices:

OVERRATED

• Crom Faeyr. Yes, the 25 strength is very nice indeed but it is otherwise lacking compared to, say, the Flail Of Ages. Also, you need to use two good strength items to get it.
• Silver Sword. Yes, it's got a sudden death capability but it's rubbish. One hit in four causes the opponent to save vs. death at -2 to avoid decapitation. Let's say that by chapter 6, your opponents will fail this saving throw one time in three. That means that it takes twelve whacks before you can expect a killing blow. If Minsc hits anything twelve times with a +3 two handed sword it's going to be dead anyway, vorpal ability or no. Not worth the trouble or expense.
• Gesen Bow. Unless you're playing an archer character most missile weapons have become obsolete by the time you get hold of this - bows and arrows just don't do enough damage quickly enough. I suppose that it gives Imoen something to do when she runs out of spells, but otherwise it's a good way to end up with 1% of the kill total.

UNDERRATED

• Spear of Impaling. +10 damage? Yes please!
• Warblade. This is what you want to give Minsc rather than the Silver Sword. Make way, evil!
• Giant Hair Crossbow. 1D10 + 5 damage. Ouch! One to consider for your Archer character.
• Lilarcor. One of the best weapons available so early in the game and confers excellent immunities. Quite amusing too in a slightly annoying sort of a way.

 

Crom Faeyr is only really good if you duel-wield IMHO.

I will have to disagree with the silver sword. Since you have mages, you should be casting a greater malasion(sp?) first thing. With that extra boost the silver sword is more than worth it.

 

I have to disagree about the Gesen Bow as well. The bow adds lightning damage to arrows you fire from it, not just firing its own lightning arrows. So if you're firing acid arrows for example, you do 1d6 (arrows) +8 (lightning) +1d6 (acid damage), plus 4 (bow's enchantment) to hit. That's 10-20 damage per hit, most of which is damage that few enemies in the game have resistances to. The only thing that sucks about the Gesen bow is that it seems to fire arrows more slowly than Tasherons, but if you load arrows this seems to fix the problem.

And I agree about Crom...almost doesn't seem worth it.

Edit: Spelling. Dammit.

[ October 13, 2003, 18:40: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

fade's got it right about Crom. Dual wield it with CF or FoA and you've tripled your killing power. Put CF or FoA in your main hand and Crom in your off hand and you've got some serious damage coming about.

I also disagree about Gensen. I hate having to deal with arrows, and if you give it to Mazzy, then she'll do some good damage with it. Also, I always give it to Imoen. (What else is she going to use?)

I think, by far, the most underrated weapon in the game is Soul Reaver. It's hardly ever talked about and the -2 THAC0 per hit is awesome. It's basically the equivalent of Carsomyr for bad guys (although it hardly rivals it).

In Weimers Item mod you can combine Holy Avenger and Soul Reaver to get a sword with ungodly power... but it's soooo overpowered.

I agree with the Spear of Impaling, but I only use it with Jahiera. Again, in Weimer's Item Mod, you can make it a throwing spear, which is great.

You can get Crom relitively early (earlier than Carsomyr) if you don't fight Firkraag. The Shadow Dragon can be beaten with a level 7 party (I've done it) and you can conquer the Ilithid city fairly early too. (Use a thief with many invisibility potions to backstab them all.)

 

I agree about Soul Reaver - very effective. Shame that I've never had a character capable of using it. Of course, [snip] can in TOB but that's another forum.

However, if you put acid arrows in the gesen bow, it fires acid arrows with a +4 THACO. The arrows themselves do 1d6 + 1 piercing and 1d3 acid damage for a total of 3 - 10. You don't get additional lightning damage. Without arrows, the damage is 2 piercing + 1d8 lightning, again 3 - 10. If Imoen were doing 10 - 20 with each hit, then she would be quite an agent of destruction. Alas, no.

As for dual wielding Crom Faeyr. Yes, it works very nicely. But there are no other decent hammers until well into TOB, so you need something like 2 points in flails, 2 in hammers, 2 in two weapon style to make it worth having. That's a lot of proficiency points. I once had a cleric-ranger dual wielding the Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyr (the dual wield proficiency points came free). Minsc still managed to beat me in percentage killed and percentage of total experience.

[ToB NPC spoiler removed.] -Tal

[ October 14, 2003, 19:31: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

You can't forge Crom without the strength girdle in the Underdark, making it a chapter 6 item. I don't like giving up two strength items for it. Even dual wielding, you're probably better off with a strength girdle and Belm in the off hand. IMHO an extra attack will be worth more than the bonus strength damage.

I'm right with you on Crom and the Silver Sword being overrated, but the Gesen Bow is straight cheese with arrows equipped. (Personally, I think being able to equip arrows and vurtually double its damage is a bug, but opinions vary). I would add the Sling of Seeking as an underrated weapon.

edit: You slipped in a post before me. IIRC Gesen still gets lightning damage with arrows equipped. If not, never mind.

 

I haven't used the vorpal sword much. It's one of those weapons that are too cool to stash away, but too fancy for regular battles. So it just sits there in the secondary weapon slots most of the time. So in this sense, I'd agree.

Crom Faeyr is very good. Take this weapon up against any golem and you'll emerge victorious in half the time. Although if you have a party and can't afford to expend the two strength items, then maybe you can make a case.

Gesen Bow - I have to sit on the fence for this one. The damage and convenience of no arrows is a plus. At +2 enchantment, its better than some short bows, but weaker than some long bows. Also it's a bit slow, as Death Rabbit pointed out (and Tuigan Bow is a much faster short bow), and arrows are found in abundance so no ammo isn't a problem.

As for the underrated weapons, you got me. Haven't used any of them, but I saw loads of potential in the Spear of Withering, but just didn't have anyone around with spear proficiencies.

 

First of all Gesen is a +4 weapon, meaning it can hit a lot of stuff in the game that most missile weapons can't touch. Gesen does do extra damage with arrows equipped. I don't know the exact breakdown, but with say, fire arrows equipped, a hit from Gesen (provided no fire immunities on creature) would say something like:

Imoen does 4 damage
Imoen does 5 damage
Imoen does 2 damage

I'm still don't think it gets up to 20 points of damage (even with acid arrows) but it definitely does much more than 3-10.

One more thing that is a bug with Gesen is that if you fire an arrow which the creature is immune, it doesn't inflict any damage. For example, if you fire Gesen at a Lich with acid arrows (lich is impervious to weapons of less than +3 enchantment) it avoids all damage, even though it should still take the lightning damage. However, if you just fire Gesen without any arrows equipped in it, the lich does take the damage.

Now for under-rated. Definitely Soul Reaver. I also like the Staff of Arundel for Jaheira, and likewise the Staff of the Woodlands that gives a bonus of 3 the AC is nice. It's like getting the effects of a shield without using a shield.

I also like the Sling of Seeking. With so many strength items lying around, it isn't hard to buff up a mage's strength really high. So, say you have a strength of 19 (very possible). If you equip it with +4 bullets, you're talking serious damage. You get 1d4+1 base for a bullet. Add 2 for the enchantment on the weapon, add 4 to that for the enchantment on the bullet, and 7 to that for the strength adjustment, and you're looking at 15-19 damage. Nice!

 

Actually Mr. Williams, we're both wrong. I mis-stated my stats, but was right about the Gesen adding lightning damage to whatever arrow you launch with it.

Read up here and here (both previous threads confirming this). And I also know for a fact that this works because I did it last night.

I also noticed that the arrows seem to fire faster if you're using actual arrows, and yes the lightning damage still applies. So the solution is to pack +1 or 2 arrows, and keep other arrows on hand for various situations.

So with acid arrows, that's 4-18 damage per hit. Just saw Aldeth's post - ditto on the bug.

 

Overrated:
- The Equalizer

 

...not to mention downright lame. Totally agreed.

 

Yeah Equalizer just sits in my bag of holding!

I totally agree Lilarcor is underrated! I got it early in the 2nd chapter, and gave it to Minsc.

Minsc for me has a rotation of 3 swords. Lilarcor, Flame of the North, and the Silver Sword.

I agree totally with all that was written about the Silver Sword, so I'm probably gonna sell it in ToB.

I just finished SoA over the weekend! And I had Minsc wielding Lilarcor for like 95% of the time that he had other options to use! Like someone said on another board, Minsc + Lilarcor is perfect because he already talks to hamsters, why not a sword also? And it works well because Lilarcor grants Charm Immunities...perfect for buddy Minsc!

Oh yeah...another overrated item is King Strohm's DragonSlayer Longsword....it doesn't do much vs. dragons.

 

Equalizer is overrated. All it does is look really cool. It doesn't really seem to work like it's supposed to and there's no way to tell what alignment a creature is except through a spell which is a total waste.

I like Lilacor, but I usually use Minsc by dual-wielding Flails and Swords since I change his Prof points with Shadowkeeper (I wouldn't touch Bows and Maces in BG1, so I don't think it's cheating).

You could easily get the Hammer of Thunderbolts first thing. Get a Ranger or Thief to sneak into the Ilithid city, or use invisibilty 10' radius to get you party into the main room. The Hammer is a +3 weapon, so you can use it by itself for a while. Shadow Dragon is easy, the Underdark can be done as soon as you get 15000g, although the Demon Knights are a challenge, you're fairly high level by then.

 

I also agree on the Lilacor. First I never used it, but now I gave it to Minsc, and he's rockin' with it! =) and I still somehow get good laughs at the time on Lilacor "Did you know, some time ago, I was like a MOONblade, hehheh!"

But when Lilacor Liverally kicks ass is when you have Item Upgrade on, and enchance it to +5.. I'll do that no matter what=) Anyone know where I could spare some extra elven holy water? =)

:EDIT:
and , the knights on underdark were easy on a certain buffs and some mordeswords and skeletal warriors battle was done in 10 seconds okay, 20

 

Underrated: Fire Tooth throwing dagger - it's basicly a throwing bastard sword with STR bonus and elemental (disrupting) damage !

Try it with a Kensai.

 

Underrated:
Azuredge - it can be purchased early in the game, can either be thrown or used in melee and it slays undead (unless save vs. death at -4). Oh, and the game is packed with undead.

Mace of Disruption - also slays undead. Immunity to level drain. Makes liches and vampires a walk in the park.

And I agree on the Sling of Seeking, Spear of Withering, Staff of the Woodlands and Fire Tooth (it doesn't have a STR bonus though)...
EDIT: @ Leslie: Or do you mean that the character's strength bonus is added to damage? My mistake then...

 

Aerie did 30+ damage on a critical hit with the Sling of Seeking while wearing the ogre gauntlets.

Firetooth is an excellent weapon... I'm considering running Imoen with Firetooth/Buckler +1 instead of her usual short bow.

 

I wouldn't say that Mace of Disruption is underrated! It's well known how good it is.

Azuredge is perhaps a bit less talked about so it might be considered underrated, but you really should patch it, get one here.

Reasons to patch Azuredge:
It's special undead-instant-death ability doesn't work on most undead contrary to its description, for the few types it works on their Save Vs. Death doesn't have a -4 penalty as it's supposed to, there is no 4 points of extra damage vs. undead as there should be, it does far too much damage vs. non-undead when thrown...

 

Oh good. I didn't realize that there was a patch for Azuredge. It really does suck as it is now, but the description makes it sound really powerful. Also, you get the STR bonus for Throwing Axes, IIRC.

 

Actually, I find Equalizer rather useful. It give immunity to hold and charm which can be helpful and anyway, there aren't many nectral enemies around, as most are evil. There was once when I used Jan to deal 30something damage to a balor with Equalizer and it was not a backstab.