1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

New Life

Discussion in 'Planescape: Torment (Classic)' started by Enagonios, Sep 3, 2006.

  1. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,744
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    438
    Gender:
    Male
    I had all 25's at the end of the game with a full complement of companions. You certainly don't need to go solo to get powerful (especially since the game adjusts the final battles based on you level).

    I think the companions make the play much more enjoyable. Dak'kon, Nordom, Annah, and Grace all have special cutscenes in the Fortress of Regrets. Morte is simply the best and funniest companion ever devised by the gaming industry.
     
  2. Killjoy Gems: 8/31
    Latest gem: Skydrop


    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, leveling quickly as a thief at lower levels is ridiculously in the Hive. Normally I'd put some kind of spoiler warning on this tactic, but it isn't really a spoiler, and this is an ancient game.

    As a thief, put all your early points into pick pockets, then continuously steal healing charms from the items merchant in the SW Hive area. Get some kind of green steel weapon (talking to enough hivers should eventually get you a green steel dagger). Now go after black abishai, which respawn in the different Hive quadrants. If you're in a party, use Morte's taunt ability to make them hostile. If you're soloing, just go up and talk to them until they attack. Have Morte tank them (or tank them yourself if soloing), pausing periodically to use some of your 99 heart charms to heal yourself. You'll level very quickly at least at the beginning.

    Again, to level quickest, having 25 WIS as early as possible is the way to go, and getting the best XP yield over the game while also getting the most sheer character power is best achieved by getting the natural 25 WIS early, then using your tattoo slots for prime requisite tattoos, such as the specialization ones that become available at levels 7 and 12.
     
  3. Dangerface Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    An easier variation to Killjoy's tactic I've found is to utilize backstabbing with his aforementioned green steel dagger. Backstab, run- rinse and repeat. Three or four backstabs and even a fiend goes down for the count, and if you're solo'ing, 7000 XP is enough to do backstrokes in.
     
  4. raptor Gems: 16/31
    Latest gem: Shandon


    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    1
    Do note that Annah got Fighter levels as well, that makes a huge difference! I tried a thief with no strength (str9) and as thief you get a very low thac0 etc, and no specialisation. Backstab is nice and dandy.... but if you cant hit the enemy, the backstab i wasted. ;) Also they do level up faster, but the start is quite simply as difficult as the game gets since you cant hit anything until you are way up in your levels.

    Weakling mage behind morte works nice, becose you just stand there and fling a few spells, and then run out. you are still not really that much worse of than a thief in combat, especially since near all armor items are mage only.

    And yeah i know of abishai's and modron cube (did those easy enough as well), its just that i prefer undersigil for leveling past 7-10 level.

    Honestly, it just got to boring. And the way i had desided to play the character i wanted to upgrade inteligence last. so in teh end he got 25 str, dex, con, wis and cha, and 9 int. I belive he was chaotic evil or something for hacking and ignoring any quests he found. And well... it just got boring, you didnt even bother to watch the fights in the end, you just made him move near to enemies, and he hacked them down by himself without eed of interaction. very boring.
     
  5. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    25
    If your thac0 is worse, the hide-backstab-run-hide tactic just takes a little bit longer. The game doesn't get more difficult if you have to use this tactic 3 times instead of 2 times per enemy.

    I don't know why you don't accept weapon specialisation for your thief, you can get it without spending a single XP for your fighter class.
    I don't think the game designers wanted to restrict thieves to 1 profiency point.
    You can't be a pure thief, you always have at least 3 fighter levels.
     
  6. Killjoy Gems: 8/31
    Latest gem: Skydrop


    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you're afraid of missing the specialization bonus at level 7 by dual-classing too early, you can get specialization at least up to "++" from Porphiron, the warrior-pacifist of Erit-Agge (whose necklace was stolen). Though to be honest, THAC0 and proficiencies are pretty out of whack in Torment...to say nothing of the Ice Knife bug which can permanently hose your THAC0.
     
  7. raptor Gems: 16/31
    Latest gem: Shandon


    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    1
    You can get the proficiencies becose of those 3 levels of fighter. You even need to be fighter to be able to train proficiencies. So yes and no :)

    Though in my "purest" thief game i actually edited out the fighter levels, and replaced them with thief levels (so i started as level 3 thief and level 1 fighter with thief my main class) and only classed to fighter to train proficiencies and did take specialisation. still not very helpful. A thief in pst is best when combined with fighter. try play te game as fighter level 3 and rest inthief and you will notice he wil lbe much weaker (part of the fun for me).
     
  8. Bion Gems: 21/31
    Latest gem: Pearl


    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,356
    Likes Received:
    2
    the fighter 3/thief x is also the preferred model for speedruns (which, sadly, I worked on but never completed due to a bug in my game causing the game to hang if I took Ravel out quickly)...
     
  9. IdaGno Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    2
    SPOILER ALERT!

    c&p saved from the olde BIS forums just before they went under = ballsy mage w/a kickass punch

    ***************************************************************

    Here it is, my mage is cleaning up the floor with his enemies, and I'm at a relatively early point in the game (I think). Dakkon and Mort can't compete with the body count that the nameless one is piling up here.

    He currently has 3 proficiency points in Fists, so he gets 1.5 attacks per round (I liked the "Fists of Iron" spell). However, as a mage he misses out on all of the nifty magic knuckles and punch daggers out there.

    Nice opportunity found: "The Gauntlets of Teeth" (I won't spoil how to find them, unless someone absolutely needs to know.) Nice weapon, +1 weapon, +2 to hit, 2-8 slashing, 1-2 crushing, or something like that. Also its cursed, once you equip it, you cannot unequip it.

    So I switched Nameless into a fighter, slapped on the guantlets (got that nice little cursed sound) and switched him back to a mage: sure enough, they stayed equipped.

    So now my mage has a nice set of boxing gloves to duke it out with the enemy, then I decided to try it in conjunction with the spell, "Fists of Iron" (+3 to hit, +6 to damage on 'normal' punch attacks). Lo and behold, it added all of that on top of what the gloves already do!

    In a combat round where I use that combination, Nameless does on the average about 18 damage per hit.

    Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!

    Just one last update on the "Fightin' Mage" style I was going for:
    SPOILERS ETC.

    Ok, I finished the game (why did this game sell so poorly? Its much better than BG2! But I digress...).

    I used the Gauntlets of Teeth in conjunction with Fist of Iron through the entire game, and in fact killed the Transcendant One using that combo (yes I'm proud of that fact).

    There were only a couple of points where the strategy got stretched past its limit:

    1. Cornugons; they demand a +2 weapon or better to hit, the gloves are only +1, interestingly enough, the bonus damage still came through (even while the Nameless One is saying, "Damn weapon doesn't work!" hehe) so he could still fight them, just not as devastating.

    2. The Demon from Moridor's box; This guy is one tough customer! I *ran out of spells* fighting him, and actually had to remove curse myself, and equip Ravel's fingernail to kill him!

    Also as a side note, the combination does even more damage than I first reported.
    The normal damage is 3-8 slashing + 1-2 crushing. The adition of the spell Fist of Iron adds +6 to *both* types of damage. So everytime he hits, he's dishing out 9-14 + 7-8 damage at +3 to hit, so its really at par with any of the really good magical weapons (or better) that I've encountered in the game, and it really outshines magic missle as an offensive spell as one casting of it can last a long time (I could crush alot more enemies this way, rather than one shot and the spell is gone!)

    [This message has been edited by ArtEChoke (edited December 31, 2001).]

    This ToHit penalty is caused by getting hit with the spell "Ice Knife." Killing the character then resurrecting him fixes it.

    ****************************************************************
     
  10. Sandmann Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you have some fighter levels, your mage musn't hide behind anybody's back, even without cursed weapons. My mage has '+++' with edged weapons and a +3 dagger, and as effective in combat as the gith or Annah. Plus he has a -7 AC (mage gear is the best) and 120 HP so I don't have to worry about loosing him, and still I can use my spells. I only miss the battle axes:)
     
  11. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2001
    Messages:
    6,089
    Likes Received:
    5
    I'm almost done with a playthrough of TNO as a pure fighter (except for the occassional mage/thief levelups) and as iirc T2 mentioned, as a fighter TNO totally owns. I've just got to Carceri, cant wait until I get Trias' sword. I played as an LG character this time around just so I could try it. I'm generally more of a NG player. I think I may play another round through after this one but as a Mage again. Only this time I'll play evil :evil:
     
  12. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,103
    Media:
    127
    Likes Received:
    183
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you have Vhailor in your party? That makes it easier to get Trias' sword without hurting your alignment... ;)

    BTW, you can use the sword as any class, not just as fighter. You have the option of changing it into another type of weapon, but only once.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2007
  13. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2001
    Messages:
    6,089
    Likes Received:
    5
    Yeah, this is my 2nd run-through. On my first, I didn't look at a walkthrough unless I was really stuck so I missed out on tons of stuff, including Vhailor, Nordom and both mazes :eek:

    But this time I have Grace, Annah, Morte, Dak'kon and Vhailor. I ditched Nordom in Curst in order to get Vhailor. I actually felt Nordom was a better fighter, but Vhailor has more story-content so I wanted to bring him along.
     
  14. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,088
    Media:
    57
    Likes Received:
    47
    Don't be too quick to dismiss Nordom story-wise. He might not have a history with TNO the way most of the other characters do, but he does develop one as the game progresses, and for a comic-relief easter-egg character he has some surprisingly touching lines towards the end of the game. By all means take Vhailor, but if you replay the game do think about taking Nordom all the way through. Besides, not taking Vhailor allows you to have a VERY interesting conversation with him :)
     
  15. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2001
    Messages:
    6,089
    Likes Received:
    5
    Just finished it again. Pure awesome. I got goosebumps during loads of dialogues even when I knew what was coming sometimes :eek:

    I have a question as I've never gotten very far as an evil character. At certain points in the game (i.e. when you use the sensory stone and see TPO luring Deionarra to her doom) TNO experiences horror and fear because TPO is such a bastard. When you're an evil character does this change? Does it become admiration or anything? Was just curious.
     
  16. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,103
    Media:
    127
    Likes Received:
    183
    Gender:
    Male
    The only important changes for evil characters are towards the end. Please see below under the warning.

    If you want to play an evil character, it is not necessary to kill commoners or anything like that. Just never do anything for free ("Sure, I'll do that - for a price!"), behave like a jerk to your company ("Come on - slave!") and to others (e.g., tell Nodd that his sister is a foul whore), tell Ravel your fellows are not friends, just tools, etc. :evil: ;) :evil:


    *WARNING! ENDGAME SPOILERS*


    An evil character will experience two changes in the Fortress of Regrets:

    1) You have to fight Vhailor instead of Ignus in the Trial of Impulse. This means that if you bring Vhailor to the Fortress, TTO will summon him and he will be waiting for you in the Trial of Impulse - and you won't find him on the rooftop at the end. But you can bring Ignus with you instead and have a final conversation with him.

    2) Some of the dialogue between TNO and TTO is differently worded but the essential dialogue trees are the same.
     
  17. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,470
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    No, sadly. That was one of only two things that majorly disappointed me about the game. Here I am playing a CE bastard through the game on my second (third?) play, and he's horrified by *lying*? Pfft.
     
  18. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2001
    Messages:
    6,089
    Likes Received:
    5
    Do you know of a site where they have the conversation typed up? I'd like to read it but don't fell up to another playthrough just now.

    Also, Vhailor was useless in the fortress. I was an LG fighter but he didn't even have a death scene like the others. Also, I've noted that you still fight Ignus if you're a good character even if you don't bring him to the fortress with you, TTO summons him all the same.
     
  19. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,103
    Media:
    127
    Likes Received:
    183
    Gender:
    Male
    You have to fight either Ignus or Vhailor, no matter what. TTO will summon them if they are not with you when you enter the fortress - or raise them if they are dead.

    The only characters that have a death scene are Dak'kon, Annah, Grace and Nordom. If you have all four with you to the fortress, you get two extra conversation items with Deionarra in the Maze of Reflection (that you need to find your friends...) but this is just cosmetic.

    I couldn't find the conversation through Google. Fortunately there is Infinity Explorer... :)

    Raising Ignus to help you fight TTO:

    - Ignus stirs, the air around him flickering slightly, almost enough to bring him to life.
    - "Arise, Ignus. I have need of you."
    - There is a rush of flames and heat, and Ignus soars into the air, the air *bending* from the thermals streaming from his body. He turns to you, his eyes like portals to the hells. *"I am yours... 'till death comes for us both."*
    - "It may be this day, Ignus..."


    Raising Ignus for the final conversation:

    - ARISE, IGNUS.
    - There is a rush of flames and heat, and Ignus soars into the air, the air *bending* from the thermals streaming from his body. He turns to you, his eyes like portals to the hells, and he gives a low, lingering hiss - but there is no menace in it, only a wariness, a caution you haven't heard before.
    - I WILL NOT REMAIN HERE MUCH LONGER, IGNUS. I WILL RETURN YOU TO SIGIL, IF YOU WISH.
    - Ignus stares at you; his expression is unreadable past the ruins of his face - and suddenly, you know what Ignus desires.
    - I WILL SEND YOU TO THE ELEMENTAL PLANE OF FIRE, IGNUS. THERE YOU SHALL SOAR UPON SKIES OF FLAMES, AND ALL CREATURES SHALL KNOW YOUR HEART. IN PERPETUAL FLAMES SHALL YOU DWELL, AS YOU WERE MEANT.
    - Ignus hovers, silent for a moment, and when he speaks, his voice sounds like someone... else, like a child, a student, one you remember long ago, in a different incarnation. "Master, forgive me... I have betrayed your teaching."
    - ONCE I TAUGHT YOU SUFFERING, IGNUS, AND THE BETRAYAL WAS MINE. NOW, I WILL SEND YOU TO A PLACE OF PEACE WHERE YOUR HEART MAY BE FREE.
    - Ignus says nothing to this, merely bows. The flames crackle around his form; wisps of ash swirl around him, like tiny leaves.
    - FAREWELL, IGNUS.
     
  20. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2001
    Messages:
    6,089
    Likes Received:
    5
    Thanks Montresor, appreciate it :)

    Man, the dialogue in this game is unbelievable. The one-liners are awesome. I love Dak'kon's stuff particularly.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.