Neverwinter Nights Forum News (Oct. 27, 04)

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Here are today's Neverwinter Nights forum highlights, collected by NWVault. Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.

Derek French, Live Team Producer

Narrow-band 'downloading'

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As someone points out, people on 56k connections are going to have a real fun time attempting to download on this narrow-band connection.

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Which is why we have a Lite version of Kingmaker available, as it is a significantly smaller download.

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Quote: Bioware has also announced a gift card/gift code system for allowing people to buy modules for other people. Would it be possible to also enable the other person to download the module and burn it to a CD for the other person.

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Absolutely. The only requirement in this situation is for the playing computer to be able to authenticate with our Master Server.

WW Multiplayer

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If the game has a hakpak, is the hakpak usuable outside the game so it can be used in non-premium player based mods?

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No.

Firewall

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Is it possible to publish the connection information for the server, so that we can maybe tunnel our way through firewalls?

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This information has been available for about 2 years now http://nwn.bioware.com/support/techfaq.html#03 Read the whole section.

Live Internet Connection

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Say I get these DD products (and I'm 99.99% sure I will), but the sales figures overall don't make the hoped impression and the whole things fails miserably. Will the authentication server still run after the fact

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Yes.

Alternative copy protection
If this initial offering is a success, I would be more than happy to investigate alternate forms of copy protection in a future update to NWN, including something that would work off-line.

Jay Watamaniuk, Community Manager

Arrgh! Its not epic!
Not to worry. Fans have made it clear in the feedback we have recieved that we will need some higher level modules to come out. This is in the works. My personal favorite for level in NWN and even tabletop is around thw 9-12 mark because your party members are very distinct at that point and you have had a chance to really get some of the feats and skills levels you were aiming for when you created the character.

27 Oct 2004 - NWN Community Expansion Pack 1.50 Upgrade Now Available
Very, very cool stuff in there.

Rob Bartel, Senior Designer Live Team

Witch's Wake- free with ANY purchase?
For the record, if you have criticisms or concerns regarding the transition of the Witch's Wake series to a for-payment model, please take them up with me as, at the end of the day, I've been the one responsible for that decision based on my assessment of the development realities. Georg's hard at work on other projects and his ongoing interest in Neverwinter and the community *is* a reflection of how he spends his free time. Remember that he's someone we hired from the community (we actually got to know him through the development of the original Witch's Wake because I used one of his scripting systems in the module). In other words, go easy on him. As for my free time, check out my signature.

Yes, I gave the go-ahead yesterday to pull down the old modules page that used to be on this site. This was done to prevent confusion. Quite frankly, with the exception of Witch's Wake, none of them were anything more than little proof-of-concept demos intended to showcase a particular piece of new content, a scripting idea, etc. Nothing worth paying for, that's for sure. While these will no longer be available from our site, it's my understanding that we're working with Maximus at the Vault to see if they can be hosted there for those who still want access to them.

As for the question of why the Witch's Wake is making the transition from a free series to a for-pay series, I've offered a clear explanation above (the basic one being that, if it's for free, other tasks will always end up taking priority and WW2 will never be completed). Another part of the decision is that this allows me to make substantial improvements to the quality of the module. When you get a chance to play the remastered version, you'll get an inkling of this with new music and VO (which really add a hell of a lot to the atmosphere but also to the cost). We'll be taking this even further with the sequel. Again, if you have issues with any of this, please direct them to me.

More:

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Quote: On to WW, and my 2 cents. It took my items at the start and gave me no EXP for fighting. I stopped playing it. There's my 2 cents.

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That's the system of fighting they used for it. They purposefully made it do that. But based on feedback, the premium edition of WW1 will give players 1% of normal XP when they fight. The whole point of WW was to not give the players their main source of XP through combat.

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To clarify, "normal XP" (i.e. 100%) is the amount recommended in pen-and-paper D&D. In the NWN campaigns, this value has typically been set at around 10% (the expansions started pushing this up a little higher to accommodate epic levels). The original Witch's Wake module set it to 0% as a design decision but we've bumped that up to 1% for the remastered version that will be available on November 10th.

More: Just to confirm, NWVault is now hosting the original, non-remastered version of the "Witch's Wake 1: Fields of Battle" module on their site. While this version of the module is no longer officially supported, it's there and freely available for all who want continued access to it.

Kingmaker-lite?
Unfortunately, there's no way to upgrade from the lite to the regular version other than a full replacement. That said, just like a traditional retail game, prices for a given module will probably drop over time. It's entirely possible that the regular Kingmaker may be available at a $2 or $3 price point somewhere down the line (or bundled into another product like Witch's Wake).

Robin Mayne, Webmaster

CEP Webpage
Hey ballpark - this is the correct forum to post issues like this, and thank you for posting. As for the CEP page itself, we have been coordinating to profile the latest version today as a BioWare Wednesday item to provide as much exposure to the update as we could. Watch for it today

Georg Zoeller, Designer

Great idea but just a tad TOO expensive
I firmly believe that everything that's not free is too expensive for someone somewhere. However, I think that these modules are a bargain, they hold more entertainment value than a movie rental, theater ticket at the same or a even lower price (depending on where you live). Opposed to your standard downloadable community modules they come with BioWare polish in design, writing and QA, voice over, etc, etc. The beauty is that nobody is forced to buy them

More:

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I really have to say that I'm on the fence about this one. On one hand, I shelled out $100 for the game so far, I haven't picked up HoTU yet, but I plan on it after christmas...so, I shelled out about $150 (including taxes folks) for one game, then I'm expected to pay $10 US for more of the game?

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There is this basic misconception about how a buyer - seller relationship again ... as with any store offering, you are expected nothing. You are expected to make an decision for yourself whether or not it is worth to buy this product or not, and if your conclusion is "it is too expensive for me", then by god, skip it. It's a decision everyone has to make for him/herself. A lot of people expressed their wishes to get more BioWare produced modules to play, and these are the people we are catering to. If you don't belong to that crowd, then nobody forces you not to buy it and go for the user created modules on the Vault instead.

The premium modules are not taking away anything from the community - instead they add. They reinvigorate interest in NWN, meaning more people to play with in multiplayer, more people creating modules and content for the Vault and they give the people who want it a chance for more BioWare quality story and module hours for a small price.

Finally, revenue from the store is going back into the Live Team to finance continual support of NWN through patches and free content releases - which we otherwise would have to stop as it is too expensive to have experienced people like Rob or Craig not working on current projects that create real revenue for the company.

I really would like to see some of you guys walk to your car dealer and do the "I bought this car a couple of years ago, I demand to get the new dvd player / navigational system that just came out for free, after all I payed for the car" number.

Live Internet Connection

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As I said in my previous posting, copy protections like this simply don't work. They only cause headaches for ligitimate customers. Locked doors only keep out honest people. Criminals don't let things like a lock get in their way.

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Sure, just remove those locks, windows and doors from your house and give it a whirl. Or how about putting your wallet on the bar and go for a trip to the bathroom.

Of course the security badges for visitors in most companies, the electronic checkout gates gates in any supermarket or store and the whole idea of a lock/immobilizer on your car are just there to be a hassle for the visitor/shopper/car owner, after all all the real criminals don't care for it. Right.

Obviously we think that there is a need for some kind of protection and that's the system we chose.

That's why we tell you about it *beforehand*, so you can make an educated decision if you want to buy these product s or if you think it's not acceptable for you, in which case you can pass on these modules and do not need to violate any laws.

Finally a warning - we will not tolerate people advocating or supporting piracy on our boards, regardless for what reasons. Violation of this rule results will result in community account removal.

Thanks for understanding that.

Witch's Wake 1
Once you bought a premium module, your CDKey will be flagged as "owner", which will allow you to redownload the module from our store if you need it - no costs attached.

And yes, you can backup the modules on a CD.

Live Internet Connection

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Can we choose an internet authentication every time we want to play NWN instead of a CD authentication? Like an entry in NWN.INI
AuthCD=1 (CD authentication)
AuthCD=0 (Internet authentication)
It should be nice (with a future patch maybe)

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Personally I like this idea, not sure how feasible it is for NWN, with all the existing contracts and such, but it might be something to look into for future games.

More:

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Why not trust the NWN community a little bit? After all the community trust BioWare that the new modules are good. So why can´t BioWare trust that enough community members will pay for it.

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For the same reason store managers will give you if you ask them why they have electronic gates.

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So unless BioWare uses a more customer-friendly system (and more dial-up user friendly system) I won´t buy the modules. Sorry.

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That is a valid decision and I respect it.

We evaluated a variety of different options and chose the one we are going for now, which, in our opinion, provides the best balance between our needs and the needs of our target audience. And yes, not unlike other services in the same field (i.e. Steam), having a broadband connection is certainly helpful - through the process only requires you to be connected to the internet when you start a game / load from a savegame - not for the whole time you are playing it.

The beauty of the system is that you can skip the premium modules and continue to get free modules from the Vault if you don't want to buy them.

So wait a sec, we have to pay for another module to get WW?

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Now, nothing against paying for the two new modules, but the question remains - WW used to be free so why do we have to pay for it now? Also, will WW2 be free or do we also have to pay for it?

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WW is still free and you don't have to pay for it. WW: Remastered, in which Rob has invested siginficant time redesigning, adding content (such as subraces to chose from), and features like professional VO - is free as well, through it will only be available in a bundle with other modules - for now with ShadowGuard. WW2 will be a premium module as well. Click Here

Question: Concering downloads

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Regarding the 'live internet connection' requirement. Do I only have to be online when loading the module up, and then I can safely disconnect from the internet to play the game, or does the connection need to persist for the duration of play.

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Starting a new game or loading up a savegame - after that, you can discconect.

Start of something great....

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I think this is a great idea, despite a couple of niggling issues with commercial and security decisions (but we won't go into that here). I just have a couple of questions, and would really appreciate an official Bioware answer:

1) Will only Bioware created modules be available as Premium downloads, or will other module creators (with NO Bioware input) be eligable?

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Not without BioWare (and potentially other parties) approval.

Shadowguard i.e. was designed by Altaris, a community member who did the amazing Lone Wolf series, who was specifically contacted by BioWare to create the module.
It was constantly reviewed by the Live Team Designers, and had to pass internal and external QA to become a premium module.

Obviously the quality of content is of great importance to us and we do not want to create a platform competing with the Vault with the premium modules - rather a feature for the segment of the community that wants high quality professionally developed modules to play.

Witch's Wake- free with ANY purchase?

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Pay-to-play is being forced.

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Bull***, you will find modules on the Vault to play for free, please don't try to polarize with mindless slogans like this.

If you mean "pay to play the premium modules", yes, that's the point of running a store.

I think Rob clearly explained that after WW1 it was found that we can not afford keeping an experienced Senior Designer from working on the products that are in active development and fund BioWare's ongoing operation and that, unless the Live Team can operate as a source of revenue, things like the WW series would never happen. And this figures don't even include things like VO, new art, content, etc.

Now you can be upset about this, but since we are not interested in commiting financial suicide, there is not much else to discuss about here.

It's not that the choice is "a free WW series" vs. "a premium WW series" - the choice was "continued freesupport for NWN, patches plus premium modules" against "moving the live team to other projects".

We chose option #1, and I think a large majority of our community is behind this decision.

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Quote: People with money rejoice

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Welcome to the real world. Stores sell stuff against cash. We sell professional adventures for about the same cost as two starbuck's coffee's or a rental video.

Think it's too much? Well, that's your right, just ignore it - but stop pretending we are taking something away from you by making these modules available. There would have never been any WW2 without the store - if not for the premium module project, Rob would now be busily writing away on Dragon Age or Jade Empire.

More:

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It's called "bait and switch" that it was offered for free and now it isn't.

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BioWare is not a charity. Rob is one of the most senior designers in the company. Other people on the Live Team fall into the same category. Not having them in the productive cycle for a long time would be plain bad business.

You can now either accept this explaination, or you can continue to claim there were some sinister plans behind the whole Witch's Wake projects - either one is fine with me because in the end it boils down to a question of who is more credible - BioWare stating on the boards that we would have liked to continue this project for free but it wasn't feasible, or a couple of tin foil conspiracy theorists claiming we planned this from the start to backstab you with the concept of "cash for a product". Oh the agony.

Take a look at the industry - see how many companies support their non pay-for-play style games 2 years after release and then come back and tell us just how sinister BioWare must be with all this.

I mean, wasn't that an ingenous plan all along from the start? Offer continual patches, content and new features - employ an entire team dubbed "The Live Team" enhancing the game for several years so people might be inclided to buy future products from us. Truly sinister indeed.

More:

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I guess I really should have put that "don't take me too seriously (if at all)" disclaimer at the top...

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That's a good idea to prevent short fused overworked designers from slaughtering you, yes

More:

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Point 1: What is preventing BioWare employees from making NWN modules in their own "free spare time"?

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I like that one, I need to get a T-shirt with that. And maybe some spare time so I can fee lazy about not doing NWN modules.

Specify download size
Chris is right, the detailed store pages will have download size information. Depending on which module and whether or not you are aiming for the "lite" version, they are around 12 and 110 MB I think.

Disgusting Idea.

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This is a greedy and cruel project to garner even more money from those who don't know better, and anyone who falls for this old trick shouldn't have their own spending money.

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Uh ... I hope you don't run that attitude with your local grocery store because they once gave you a free apple with the orange you bought in the incredible 2 for 1 deal ... might become unhealthy after a while.

Speaking of hidden charges however is bull***, since that would imply that we charge you for a service or anything you have already, which is not the case. Your existing NWN copy has not been increased in cost, you can still play free multiplayer, still create and download free modules, nothing has changed, except that there is now an option to buy more adventures.

You still can play your existing modules, you can still download and create new modules from the Vault and elsewhere and on top of it, you may receive some of the top quality new content (i.e. portraits, voice sets, who knows) we commissioned for those modules down the line in free patches. Since the alternative would have been the "move the liveteam on to more profitable projects", this is about the best outcome the NWN community could have hoped for, and I'm personally very happy to see it come to pass.

Sorry, with all tolerance (which, granted, might run low on my side from time to time) I can't see your point in this being distusting and an evil ripoff.

Nobody will force you to play the premium moduless, and we are planning to do add new content to free patches, which is certainly not free for us (testing/bandwith/etc) - in the end, we are giving you and everyone else a choice for more adventure with your NWN with a reasonable pricetag.

You're not forced to love it, you're not forced to like it or play them, but I would expect at least a certain level of sanity when ranting about it on the boards.

I can perfectly understand when people are upset about the fact that we originally announced Witch's Wake as free series, but I expect them to also understand that BioWare is a business and not a charity, and that we are operating by the laws of the market, meaning that we have to reevaluate decisions if they are found not sustainable. If you can not understand that, then I suggest taking some classes or reading some books on how the market works, because you are setting yourself up for some ugly disappointments in your life when running around with this attitude.

Thank you for listening to these rants.

More:

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Georg, Stanley... is there anyway we can move this up to the 1st? It'd be a nice cheap 30th b-day gift to myself...

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No doubt we would like to, but think of the poor artist who would have to remake all the "coming 10th november" banners ...

CEP
There are legal issues barring us from using CEP in any official product, free or not.

Why?
CEP is certainly a really good idea and it is a really good showcase of the great work the community has put into NWN - but with hundreds of contributors to it, the chances that someone might have used some material that they might not have been given the right to use are there - a part of a texture on a creature model, creature or placeable gemometry, a portrait, etc. While the people doing CEP go great length to ensure that this does not happen, there is no guarantee and as long as the slimmest chance for someone infringing someone elses rights, even unknowingly, exists, it can not come anywhere close to an official BioWare product as we would open ourselfs up for legal nightmares.

Everything that goes into the premium modules is created for BioWare under contract, so we have full legal rights to it.

Hope this clarifies things.

More:

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(quote)Posted 10/27/04 23:16:38 (GMT) by midians
My point is simple. Neverwinter nights made a specific promise pertaining to the modules “they – are – free”.

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Now if you can point me to a quote from BioWare stating that all BioWare modules for NWN will be free - forever, I might be inclined to read further, but unfortunately I think you are making this up.

I'm certain you'll not find any quotes from us using the word promise in letter or spirit in this context.

Great idea but just a tad TOO expensive

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I thought the point of paying for NWN was that we wouldn't have to pay for any of the modules.

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(sarcasm++)

Well, seems to me that you thought wrong. I could start to rant on about how reading what's on the box is a better idea than thinking in some instances, but I'm sure some people might find that offensive.

But there is some truth in your statement anyway, which is - you don't HAVE TO - because nobody FORCES you to play these modules. You can continue to satisfy your need your module from the Vault.

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I know I wouldn't have bought NWN just for the great OC (sarcasm). I expect to have full access to every NWN module for my $50, because $50 is a ripoff if it's only for the horrible OC.

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Yea, sure, that's why you bought the expansion packs after that and still stick around. Sorry, then you should have returned your product to the store you bought it from, because coming back two years later, playing the 'I wasn't really satisfied, so I expect your future products to be free' tune isn't going to cut it.

I might try this at my local Future Shop ... I bought this game, but I didn't like it, can you get the expansion for free? Yea, sure, it's been two years since then, and I got two more expansion packs for it, because I didn't like it, but I still think I am entitled to get future content for free. That's a good one.

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If you've played one NWN mod, you've played them all, so I don't think anyone is dumb enough to pay for a mod when there are millions (ok, a lot) to download for free.

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QED

Kingmaker-lite?

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People on dial up, for whom a 110mb file is just too big.

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Exactly why we have the lite version

What about the monster special attack bug in 1.64?
We know about it, we know what's causing it and we are looking into how to fix it without unfixing the stuff that we fixed that caused this

I don't know if someone has pointed this out, but...
Talking about setting dangerous precedents. But we usually do this, remember the "countdown" pictures for HotU and KotOR...

Refund on Product?
You will have to wait for the store Terms of Service when it launches for that.

Craig Welburn, Live Team Programmer

WW Multiplayer

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Each player will have to have their CDKey authorized as a WW owner (i.e. they purchased the SG/WW bundle) and have the hakpak installed in the proper directory on their machine. On a purely technical level, they don't need the actual module itself. Rob Bartel

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I found statement by Rob a little confusing/misleading. In a multiplayer game that is running a Premium Module, all players will have to have purchased a copy of the Premium Module and all players will have to have installed the entire Premium Module bundle in order to be able to play.

James Henley, Technical Designer

Advice for the spellcaster impaired
Well, first of all, you should have been level 3 by the time you finished the prelude, as I recall. A level 2 wizard is fairly laughable. At least by level 3 you have access to second tier magic. Secondly, the spells you pick have a major impact on your survival rate. Certain staples, like mage armor, are a must. Magic Missile is extremly handy as well, though Negative Energy Ray has a reasonable ramp in its damage dealing capabilities. When you get your second tier spells, Melf's Acid Arrow is a powerful one, especially early in the game.

Dan Whiteside - Designer

Tell me why I should even consider buying one

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Well, I might be buying the ShadowGuard/Witch's Wake set but I am wary of the Kingmaker."

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Ummmm... cuz one of my ancestors cheated one of your ancestors in the past? Or did something I wrote offend you somehow? I mean, you can be wary... doesn't bother me, I'm just wondering why you single my mod out for extra-special wariness.

Well, I do hope everyone enjoys both of the mods. Thanks ahead of time for those who will support this effort. And to those who choose not to, good on you. That's what freedom is all about and I hold no grudges. We honestly do appreciate all the hard work that our community has done and we hope to continue to provide free support for as long as we can. These are just a way to make that easier. The patches are still being made with free content.

Here are the latest posts from the Official Forums made by the developers. Please note these are only one part of the thread, and should not be taken out of context. If you find any forum threads we may have missed or you think should be in the highlights, send me an email.

Derek French, Live Team Producer

Narrow-band 'downloading'

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As someone points out, people on 56k connections are going to have a real fun time attempting to download on this narrow-band connection.

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Which is why we have a Lite version of Kingmaker available, as it is a significantly smaller download.

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Quote: Bioware has also announced a gift card/gift code system for allowing people to buy modules for other people. Would it be possible to also enable the other person to download the module and burn it to a CD for the other person.

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Absolutely. The only requirement in this situation is for the playing computer to be able to authenticate with our Master Server.

WW Multiplayer

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If the game has a hakpak, is the hakpak usuable outside the game so it can be used in non-premium player based mods?

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No.

Firewall

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Is it possible to publish the connection information for the server, so that we can maybe tunnel our way through firewalls?

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This information has been available for about 2 years now http://nwn.bioware.com/support/techfaq.html#03 Read the whole section.

Live Internet Connection

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Say I get these DD products (and I'm 99.99% sure I will), but the sales figures overall don't make the hoped impression and the whole things fails miserably. Will the authentication server still run after the fact

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Yes.

Alternative copy protection
If this initial offering is a success, I would be more than happy to investigate alternate forms of copy protection in a future update to NWN, including something that would work off-line.

Jay Watamaniuk, Community Manager

Arrgh! Its not epic!
Not to worry. Fans have made it clear in the feedback we have recieved that we will need some higher level modules to come out. This is in the works. My personal favorite for level in NWN and even tabletop is around thw 9-12 mark because your party members are very distinct at that point and you have had a chance to really get some of the feats and skills levels you were aiming for when you created the character.

27 Oct 2004 - NWN Community Expansion Pack 1.50 Upgrade Now Available
Very, very cool stuff in there.

Rob Bartel, Senior Designer Live Team

Witch's Wake- free with ANY purchase?
For the record, if you have criticisms or concerns regarding the transition of the Witch's Wake series to a for-payment model, please take them up with me as, at the end of the day, I've been the one responsible for that decision based on my assessment of the development realities. Georg's hard at work on other projects and his ongoing interest in Neverwinter and the community *is* a reflection of how he spends his free time. Remember that he's someone we hired from the community (we actually got to know him through the development of the original Witch's Wake because I used one of his scripting systems in the module). In other words, go easy on him. As for my free time, check out my signature.

Yes, I gave the go-ahead yesterday to pull down the old modules page that used to be on this site. This was done to prevent confusion. Quite frankly, with the exception of Witch's Wake, none of them were anything more than little proof-of-concept demos intended to showcase a particular piece of new content, a scripting idea, etc. Nothing worth paying for, that's for sure. While these will no longer be available from our site, it's my understanding that we're working with Maximus at the Vault to see if they can be hosted there for those who still want access to them.

As for the question of why the Witch's Wake is making the transition from a free series to a for-pay series, I've offered a clear explanation above (the basic one being that, if it's for free, other tasks will always end up taking priority and WW2 will never be completed). Another part of the decision is that this allows me to make substantial improvements to the quality of the module. When you get a chance to play the remastered version, you'll get an inkling of this with new music and VO (which really add a hell of a lot to the atmosphere but also to the cost). We'll be taking this even further with the sequel. Again, if you have issues with any of this, please direct them to me.

More:

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Quote: On to WW, and my 2 cents. It took my items at the start and gave me no EXP for fighting. I stopped playing it. There's my 2 cents.

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That's the system of fighting they used for it. They purposefully made it do that. But based on feedback, the premium edition of WW1 will give players 1% of normal XP when they fight. The whole point of WW was to not give the players their main source of XP through combat.

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To clarify, "normal XP" (i.e. 100%) is the amount recommended in pen-and-paper D&D. In the NWN campaigns, this value has typically been set at around 10% (the expansions started pushing this up a little higher to accommodate epic levels). The original Witch's Wake module set it to 0% as a design decision but we've bumped that up to 1% for the remastered version that will be available on November 10th.

More: Just to confirm, NWVault is now hosting the original, non-remastered version of the "Witch's Wake 1: Fields of Battle" module on their site. While this version of the module is no longer officially supported, it's there and freely available for all who want continued access to it.

Kingmaker-lite?
Unfortunately, there's no way to upgrade from the lite to the regular version other than a full replacement. That said, just like a traditional retail game, prices for a given module will probably drop over time. It's entirely possible that the regular Kingmaker may be available at a $2 or $3 price point somewhere down the line (or bundled into another product like Witch's Wake).

Robin Mayne, Webmaster

CEP Webpage
Hey ballpark - this is the correct forum to post issues like this, and thank you for posting. As for the CEP page itself, we have been coordinating to profile the latest version today as a BioWare Wednesday item to provide as much exposure to the update as we could. Watch for it today

Georg Zoeller, Designer

Great idea but just a tad TOO expensive
I firmly believe that everything that's not free is too expensive for someone somewhere. However, I think that these modules are a bargain, they hold more entertainment value than a movie rental, theater ticket at the same or a even lower price (depending on where you live). Opposed to your standard downloadable community modules they come with BioWare polish in design, writing and QA, voice over, etc, etc. The beauty is that nobody is forced to buy them

More:

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I really have to say that I'm on the fence about this one. On one hand, I shelled out $100 for the game so far, I haven't picked up HoTU yet, but I plan on it after christmas...so, I shelled out about $150 (including taxes folks) for one game, then I'm expected to pay $10 US for more of the game?

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There is this basic misconception about how a buyer - seller relationship again ... as with any store offering, you are expected nothing. You are expected to make an decision for yourself whether or not it is worth to buy this product or not, and if your conclusion is "it is too expensive for me", then by god, skip it. It's a decision everyone has to make for him/herself. A lot of people expressed their wishes to get more BioWare produced modules to play, and these are the people we are catering to. If you don't belong to that crowd, then nobody forces you not to buy it and go for the user created modules on the Vault instead.

The premium modules are not taking away anything from the community - instead they add. They reinvigorate interest in NWN, meaning more people to play with in multiplayer, more people creating modules and content for the Vault and they give the people who want it a chance for more BioWare quality story and module hours for a small price.

Finally, revenue from the store is going back into the Live Team to finance continual support of NWN through patches and free content releases - which we otherwise would have to stop as it is too expensive to have experienced people like Rob or Craig not working on current projects that create real revenue for the company.

I really would like to see some of you guys walk to your car dealer and do the "I bought this car a couple of years ago, I demand to get the new dvd player / navigational system that just came out for free, after all I payed for the car" number.

Live Internet Connection

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As I said in my previous posting, copy protections like this simply don't work. They only cause headaches for ligitimate customers. Locked doors only keep out honest people. Criminals don't let things like a lock get in their way.

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Sure, just remove those locks, windows and doors from your house and give it a whirl. Or how about putting your wallet on the bar and go for a trip to the bathroom.

Of course the security badges for visitors in most companies, the electronic checkout gates gates in any supermarket or store and the whole idea of a lock/immobilizer on your car are just there to be a hassle for the visitor/shopper/car owner, after all all the real criminals don't care for it. Right.

Obviously we think that there is a need for some kind of protection and that's the system we chose.

That's why we tell you about it *beforehand*, so you can make an educated decision if you want to buy these product s or if you think it's not acceptable for you, in which case you can pass on these modules and do not need to violate any laws.

Finally a warning - we will not tolerate people advocating or supporting piracy on our boards, regardless for what reasons. Violation of this rule results will result in community account removal.

Thanks for understanding that.

Witch's Wake 1
Once you bought a premium module, your CDKey will be flagged as "owner", which will allow you to redownload the module from our store if you need it - no costs attached.

And yes, you can backup the modules on a CD.

Live Internet Connection

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Can we choose an internet authentication every time we want to play NWN instead of a CD authentication? Like an entry in NWN.INI
AuthCD=1 (CD authentication)
AuthCD=0 (Internet authentication)
It should be nice (with a future patch maybe)

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Personally I like this idea, not sure how feasible it is for NWN, with all the existing contracts and such, but it might be something to look into for future games.

More:

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Why not trust the NWN community a little bit? After all the community trust BioWare that the new modules are good. So why can´t BioWare trust that enough community members will pay for it.

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For the same reason store managers will give you if you ask them why they have electronic gates.

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So unless BioWare uses a more customer-friendly system (and more dial-up user friendly system) I won´t buy the modules. Sorry.

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That is a valid decision and I respect it.

We evaluated a variety of different options and chose the one we are going for now, which, in our opinion, provides the best balance between our needs and the needs of our target audience. And yes, not unlike other services in the same field (i.e. Steam), having a broadband connection is certainly helpful - through the process only requires you to be connected to the internet when you start a game / load from a savegame - not for the whole time you are playing it.

The beauty of the system is that you can skip the premium modules and continue to get free modules from the Vault if you don't want to buy them.

So wait a sec, we have to pay for another module to get WW?

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Now, nothing against paying for the two new modules, but the question remains - WW used to be free so why do we have to pay for it now? Also, will WW2 be free or do we also have to pay for it?

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WW is still free and you don't have to pay for it. WW: Remastered, in which Rob has invested siginficant time redesigning, adding content (such as subraces to chose from), and features like professional VO - is free as well, through it will only be available in a bundle with other modules - for now with ShadowGuard. WW2 will be a premium module as well. Click Here

Question: Concering downloads

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Regarding the 'live internet connection' requirement. Do I only have to be online when loading the module up, and then I can safely disconnect from the internet to play the game, or does the connection need to persist for the duration of play.

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Starting a new game or loading up a savegame - after that, you can discconect.

Start of something great....

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I think this is a great idea, despite a couple of niggling issues with commercial and security decisions (but we won't go into that here). I just have a couple of questions, and would really appreciate an official Bioware answer:

1) Will only Bioware created modules be available as Premium downloads, or will other module creators (with NO Bioware input) be eligable?

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Not without BioWare (and potentially other parties) approval.

Shadowguard i.e. was designed by Altaris, a community member who did the amazing Lone Wolf series, who was specifically contacted by BioWare to create the module.
It was constantly reviewed by the Live Team Designers, and had to pass internal and external QA to become a premium module.

Obviously the quality of content is of great importance to us and we do not want to create a platform competing with the Vault with the premium modules - rather a feature for the segment of the community that wants high quality professionally developed modules to play.

Witch's Wake- free with ANY purchase?

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Pay-to-play is being forced.

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Bull***, you will find modules on the Vault to play for free, please don't try to polarize with mindless slogans like this.

If you mean "pay to play the premium modules", yes, that's the point of running a store.

I think Rob clearly explained that after WW1 it was found that we can not afford keeping an experienced Senior Designer from working on the products that are in active development and fund BioWare's ongoing operation and that, unless the Live Team can operate as a source of revenue, things like the WW series would never happen. And this figures don't even include things like VO, new art, content, etc.

Now you can be upset about this, but since we are not interested in commiting financial suicide, there is not much else to discuss about here.

It's not that the choice is "a free WW series" vs. "a premium WW series" - the choice was "continued freesupport for NWN, patches plus premium modules" against "moving the live team to other projects".

We chose option #1, and I think a large majority of our community is behind this decision.

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Quote: People with money rejoice

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Welcome to the real world. Stores sell stuff against cash. We sell professional adventures for about the same cost as two starbuck's coffee's or a rental video.

Think it's too much? Well, that's your right, just ignore it - but stop pretending we are taking something away from you by making these modules available. There would have never been any WW2 without the store - if not for the premium module project, Rob would now be busily writing away on Dragon Age or Jade Empire.

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It's called "bait and switch" that it was offered for free and now it isn't.

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BioWare is not a charity. Rob is one of the most senior designers in the company. Other people on the Live Team fall into the same category. Not having them in the productive cycle for a long time would be plain bad business.

You can now either accept this explaination, or you can continue to claim there were some sinister plans behind the whole Witch's Wake projects - either one is fine with me because in the end it boils down to a question of who is more credible - BioWare stating on the boards that we would have liked to continue this project for free but it wasn't feasible, or a couple of tin foil conspiracy theorists claiming we planned this from the start to backstab you with the concept of "cash for a product". Oh the agony.

Take a look at the industry - see how many companies support their non pay-for-play style games 2 years after release and then come back and tell us just how sinister BioWare must be with all this.

I mean, wasn't that an ingenous plan all along from the start? Offer continual patches, content and new features - employ an entire team dubbed "The Live Team" enhancing the game for several years so people might be inclided to buy future products from us. Truly sinister indeed.

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I guess I really should have put that "don't take me too seriously (if at all)" disclaimer at the top...

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That's a good idea to prevent short fused overworked designers from slaughtering you, yes

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Point 1: What is preventing BioWare employees from making NWN modules in their own "free spare time"?

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I like that one, I need to get a T-shirt with that. And maybe some spare time so I can fee lazy about not doing NWN modules.

Specify download size
Chris is right, the detailed store pages will have download size information. Depending on which module and whether or not you are aiming for the "lite" version, they are around 12 and 110 MB I think.

Disgusting Idea.

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This is a greedy and cruel project to garner even more money from those who don't know better, and anyone who falls for this old trick shouldn't have their own spending money.

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Uh ... I hope you don't run that attitude with your local grocery store because they once gave you a free apple with the orange you bought in the incredible 2 for 1 deal ... might become unhealthy after a while.

Speaking of hidden charges however is bull***, since that would imply that we charge you for a service or anything you have already, which is not the case. Your existing NWN copy has not been increased in cost, you can still play free multiplayer, still create and download free modules, nothing has changed, except that there is now an option to buy more adventures.

You still can play your existing modules, you can still download and create new modules from the Vault and elsewhere and on top of it, you may receive some of the top quality new content (i.e. portraits, voice sets, who knows) we commissioned for those modules down the line in free patches. Since the alternative would have been the "move the liveteam on to more profitable projects", this is about the best outcome the NWN community could have hoped for, and I'm personally very happy to see it come to pass.

Sorry, with all tolerance (which, granted, might run low on my side from time to time) I can't see your point in this being distusting and an evil ripoff.

Nobody will force you to play the premium moduless, and we are planning to do add new content to free patches, which is certainly not free for us (testing/bandwith/etc) - in the end, we are giving you and everyone else a choice for more adventure with your NWN with a reasonable pricetag.

You're not forced to love it, you're not forced to like it or play them, but I would expect at least a certain level of sanity when ranting about it on the boards.

I can perfectly understand when people are upset about the fact that we originally announced Witch's Wake as free series, but I expect them to also understand that BioWare is a business and not a charity, and that we are operating by the laws of the market, meaning that we have to reevaluate decisions if they are found not sustainable. If you can not understand that, then I suggest taking some classes or reading some books on how the market works, because you are setting yourself up for some ugly disappointments in your life when running around with this attitude.

Thank you for listening to these rants.

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Georg, Stanley... is there anyway we can move this up to the 1st? It'd be a nice cheap 30th b-day gift to myself...

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No doubt we would like to, but think of the poor artist who would have to remake all the "coming 10th november" banners ...

CEP
There are legal issues barring us from using CEP in any official product, free or not.

Why?
CEP is certainly a really good idea and it is a really good showcase of the great work the community has put into NWN - but with hundreds of contributors to it, the chances that someone might have used some material that they might not have been given the right to use are there - a part of a texture on a creature model, creature or placeable gemometry, a portrait, etc. While the people doing CEP go great length to ensure that this does not happen, there is no guarantee and as long as the slimmest chance for someone infringing someone elses rights, even unknowingly, exists, it can not come anywhere close to an official BioWare product as we would open ourselfs up for legal nightmares.

Everything that goes into the premium modules is created for BioWare under contract, so we have full legal rights to it.

Hope this clarifies things.

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(quote)Posted 10/27/04 23:16:38 (GMT) by midians
My point is simple. Neverwinter nights made a specific promise pertaining to the modules “they – are – free”.

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Now if you can point me to a quote from BioWare stating that all BioWare modules for NWN will be free - forever, I might be inclined to read further, but unfortunately I think you are making this up.

I'm certain you'll not find any quotes from us using the word promise in letter or spirit in this context.

Great idea but just a tad TOO expensive

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I thought the point of paying for NWN was that we wouldn't have to pay for any of the modules.

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(sarcasm++)

Well, seems to me that you thought wrong. I could start to rant on about how reading what's on the box is a better idea than thinking in some instances, but I'm sure some people might find that offensive.

But there is some truth in your statement anyway, which is - you don't HAVE TO - because nobody FORCES you to play these modules. You can continue to satisfy your need your module from the Vault.

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I know I wouldn't have bought NWN just for the great OC (sarcasm). I expect to have full access to every NWN module for my $50, because $50 is a ripoff if it's only for the horrible OC.

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Yea, sure, that's why you bought the expansion packs after that and still stick around. Sorry, then you should have returned your product to the store you bought it from, because coming back two years later, playing the 'I wasn't really satisfied, so I expect your future products to be free' tune isn't going to cut it.

I might try this at my local Future Shop ... I bought this game, but I didn't like it, can you get the expansion for free? Yea, sure, it's been two years since then, and I got two more expansion packs for it, because I didn't like it, but I still think I am entitled to get future content for free. That's a good one.

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If you've played one NWN mod, you've played them all, so I don't think anyone is dumb enough to pay for a mod when there are millions (ok, a lot) to download for free.

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QED

Kingmaker-lite?

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People on dial up, for whom a 110mb file is just too big.

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Exactly why we have the lite version

What about the monster special attack bug in 1.64?
We know about it, we know what's causing it and we are looking into how to fix it without unfixing the stuff that we fixed that caused this

I don't know if someone has pointed this out, but...
Talking about setting dangerous precedents. But we usually do this, remember the "countdown" pictures for HotU and KotOR...

Refund on Product?
You will have to wait for the store Terms of Service when it launches for that.

Craig Welburn, Live Team Programmer

WW Multiplayer

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Each player will have to have their CDKey authorized as a WW owner (i.e. they purchased the SG/WW bundle) and have the hakpak installed in the proper directory on their machine. On a purely technical level, they don't need the actual module itself. Rob Bartel

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I found statement by Rob a little confusing/misleading. In a multiplayer game that is running a Premium Module, all players will have to have purchased a copy of the Premium Module and all players will have to have installed the entire Premium Module bundle in order to be able to play.

James Henley, Technical Designer

Advice for the spellcaster impaired
Well, first of all, you should have been level 3 by the time you finished the prelude, as I recall. A level 2 wizard is fairly laughable. At least by level 3 you have access to second tier magic. Secondly, the spells you pick have a major impact on your survival rate. Certain staples, like mage armor, are a must. Magic Missile is extremly handy as well, though Negative Energy Ray has a reasonable ramp in its damage dealing capabilities. When you get your second tier spells, Melf's Acid Arrow is a powerful one, especially early in the game.

Dan Whiteside, Designer

Tell me why I should even consider buying one

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Well, I might be buying the ShadowGuard/Witch's Wake set but I am wary of the Kingmaker."

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Ummmm... cuz one of my ancestors cheated one of your ancestors in the past? Or did something I wrote offend you somehow? I mean, you can be wary... doesn't bother me, I'm just wondering why you single my mod out for extra-special wariness.

Well, I do hope everyone enjoys both of the mods. Thanks ahead of time for those who will support this effort. And to those who choose not to, good on you. That's what freedom is all about and I hold no grudges. We honestly do appreciate all the hard work that our community has done and we hope to continue to provide free support for as long as we can. These are just a way to make that easier. The patches are still being made with free content.

[ October 28, 2004, 16:40: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Chev, a little pointer for future posts, if there is so much news as in this one, try to cut it in different threads. That makes it easier to comment (if you want to comment) and makes it more digestable. Just my two cents.