My Party - Suggestions Please

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Hey all, need some advice on my IWD2 party. I bought this game back when it was released in Sept. '02 and pretty much haven't played it. I think the most I've done was create a party and did a couple of the FedEx quests in Targos lol. So, recently I've gotten the urge to play this game and maybe this time I'll get a little farther.

I have an idea of what I want in my party but I'm unsure of race, levels to mc, and the overall size of the party. I like the idea of being able to create 6 party members, I just don't like the idea of managing 6 party members. Am I hurting myself by going with 4 or maybe 5 members? Let me break down what I have so far:

Fighter(4)/Barbarian(X), Human or Half-Orc
Fighter(4)/Cleric(X), Dwarf
Paladin(1)/Sorcerer(X), Human
Rogue(?)/Wizard(X), Drow

and if I did increase to 5 members, my 5th member would be:

Cleric or Druid(X), Moon Elf

Probably my biggest concern is with the Rogue. I don't really care for back stab but I definitely want a character that can scout ahead, disable traps, and open locks. So, how many levels of Rogue would be considered enough to do all that and be successful throughout the whole game? If it came down to where more than 4, 5 Rogue levels is essential then I'll make the Drow Wizard/Rogue a Drow Rogue(X)/Fighter(4) and probably go to 5 party members and take the Moon Elf Cleric or Druid.

I didn't list stats because I'll worry about that when I have my Class/Race set for my party members. Any help, advice you can give is greatly appreciated.

 

Since you are making a Drow Rouge/Wizard I'm guessing he has 20Dex and 20Int at make. You can start him off as rouge and then turn over to wizard if you so wish. With all the skill-points you get you needn't worry about being too far behind in the rouge skills.
Give him 2 levels of rouge so he gets the evasion ability.

As for your sorcerer, aasimar seems to be a better race. Seeing that the Paladin get immunities to fear and disease L2 and L3, consider taking those levels.

 

Your party seems pretty good to me. Taking along four characters instead of six will make the game a little bit harder in the beginning, but because you level up faster, you will be getting more powerful than a six character party.

I think a fighter/barbarian is probably the best pure tank you can make. You don't need any skill points, and you don't need that many feats either, so I wouldn't take a human. Half-orc is good because of the strength, but you should also consider a dwarf for their higher constitution (hitpoints) and some other bonuses.
I don't think a cleric benefits a lot from taking four levels as a fighter. Clerics are already pretty decent fighters and I think that it's better to be able to cast higher level spells faster than to get Weapon Specialisation. So I would level the cleric up to a point where he can cast a certain level of spells (six for heal for instance) and then take the fighter levels. Taking the fighter levels eventually seems good to me, because level 9 cleric spells aren't all that great anyway.
The paladin/sorcerer seems good. You could also take two levels of paladin for Aura of Courage which makes you and partymembers near you invulnerable to fear effects. The only problem that this character has is that you have to take the paladin levels after eachother. If you take some levels as a paladin and then take a level of sorcerer you won't be able to take any more levels of paladin. However, this is only a problem if you don't know yet how much pally levels you want.
I would probably take one or two levels of rogue. One is for the thieving skills and skillpoints and two could be for Evasion. Because your intelligence is high, you should be able to increase a lot of skills at level up and so you don't need any more rogue levels. If you don't have enough skillpoints, specialize in search and disable trap. Scouting can be done with the wizard spell 'Invisibility' and 'Knock' will open locks for you. Oh, and you should choose a Specialist class for the wizard. This will give you more castings per level. Don't worry about the fact that you can't cast some spells. Just specialize in something that has a bad opposite school and the sorcerer can cover the few spells of that school that are useful.

If you decide to take that fifth character, I would recommend the druid over the cleric, because I think it's nice to have some variety.

 

First, thanks for the reply.

Yes, if I were going with the Drow Rogue/Wizard his DEX and INT would be 20. So, give him 2 levels of Rogue and then jump to Wizard? Will my Rogue skills be adequate enough late in the game with just those two levels? I don't want to run into a situation late in the game where I can't open something....then again, I guess I could just use a Knock spell but my concerns other than that would be stealth, pick pocket and finding traps, if those are things to be concerned with.

I was thinking Aasimar as well for my Sorcerer. The bonus to CHA made it an obvious choice but I was concerned with the ECL and already being one level behind the Wizard as far as learning new spells. Thanks for the tip on the Paladin levels...I had only planned on taking 1 but it makes sense to go at least 2 or 3.

As far as my party size, is it just preference or was the game meant to be played with 6 characters? From reading the posts I know its quite possible to solo this game but I also understand by going with fewer characters, you advance quicker thus having situations where you might kill something and get no XP at all. I also didn't want to run into situations where my party was too strong, making the game too easy & boring.

 

You will find a few trapped chests which refuse to open or even identify . But its almost impossible affect them without magic anyways, so dont fret. Find traps, knock and potions of master thievery will find their use.
The only problem I really had was with pick-pocketing. Then again the returns are so bad that it almost doesn't matter.

L27 and L28 for sorcerer are almost the same so its either pally L1 or L3. Ofcourse thats only gonna happen in HoF, but still ...
ECL stops being a disadvantage by the time you get to Kuldahar anyways, so dont worry about it.

As far as number of charecters is concerned, the fewer charecters you have to control the more you can be involved with them.
I remember my first pass through the game when I had 6 charecters. It got to a point where I had everyone including the arcane casters dealing with the myconoids in the Underdark with just Quaterstaffs. Boring!
Having fewer chars means that you spend more time on each individual and can really find out their capabilities and limitations. Ofcourse the game gets harder to play. So 4 seems to be an ideal party with a 5th if added being a Bard or someone whom you just let sing away.

And dont worry about being too strong. You wont

 

Menion, I just finished posting my reply to Shrikanth when I saw your post. Thanks for replying.

My plan is to have 2 characters up front who can melee and 2-3 in the back who are casters/ranged characters. I thought by giving my Dwarf Cleric a few fighter levels he could be a solid tank as well as healer but I now realize this may not give me enough protection. That's why I've considered taking a 5th character and making her a full Cleric/Druid. She can be in the back healing and using a bow. I also thought if I did take both the Dwarf and Moon Elf I could have the Dwarf be the so called 'buffer' of the group and the Moon Elf be the primary healer. This was just a thought tho.

As for my Drow Rogue/Wizard, that makes two of you that have said 2 levels of Rogue is enough and that's enough for me. Also, which Specialist School should I choose? Do you recommend one?

For my Sorcerer/Paladin should I take my first level as a Sorcerer then MC to Paladin for the next 2 levels and finally jump back to Sorcerer or should I just take the first 2 levels as Paladin then MC to Sorcerer?

Thanks for all your help!

 

I don't think that ECL is a disadvantage at all. ECL characters have great bonuses and their lower character level means your party levels up faster anyway (Drows and Deep Gnomes are awesome). I also agree that having less than 6 party members is more fun because it's too hard to manage 6 characters. Plus, I would recommend no specialist school for your wizard until next time you play when you'll have a better idea of what sort of spells you find useful.

 

A word about Paladins:
http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/iwd2/character/classes/warriors/paladin/

With a party of 4, you can advance rather quickly in Targos. I would start out as a Paladin for 2 levels then switch over to Sorcerer. 2 levels of Rogue will be enough. I have a Rogue 2/Wiz X in my party and with an INT of 14 I had like 34 skill points to distribute because I started him out as a Rogue. That's one of the good things about Targos is that you can start off as a pure melee party and then after advancing a few times start picking up your mage classes, but you don't want to wait too long. I think with a 4 member party by the time you are done clearing out Targos they will be around level 6 (w/ the exception of your ECL pentalites). You can check my party here: http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/14/2090.html

 

Weapon Specialisation is overrated. You can live without it and, certainly, there are better uses for 4 levels of experience for a spellcasting character. However, if you're aiming for very high levels (solo/HoF), it will pay off. Not on lower levels, though.

Especially if you're a cleric, you might be better off buffed to the max with spells cast with a good casting level than whatever fighter levels could give you. Unless you're actually planning a battlepriest character and you know what you're doing.

The plus side, however, is that a cleric with 4 fighter levels and specialisation in the weapon he's using doesn't have to cast anything to make a tank. Pure class clerics don't always make it. With two arcane casters in this relatively small party, you can live with your cleric slightly capped.

Drows are typically overrated. They make great and potent characters, but only if you build them right. If you want another extremely powerful spellcaster, don't go for it. But if you want to have a rogue but don't feel like wasting a character slot on a fulltimer (bad bargain in IWD2), that character is a great choice. Evasion, spell resistance and high reflex save will help keep standing where other casters would fall. Note, however, that you'll be 4 levels behind a non-ECL pure class wizard. Decide between focusing on stealth and guile and offsetting your shortcomings with Spell Focuses. I would definitely take Greater Penetration - to have both high spell resistance and potential to break through the enemy's resistance. Greater Spell Focus: Evocation together with Spirit of Flame (and/or other elemental feat(s)) will help you do way more damage than you should

As for your paladin/sorcerer, you might consider taking a second level in paladin class for Aura of Courage - immunity for you, +2 to saves vs fear for allies close to you. Don't take a human. Take an aasimar. That's 4 stat points for free in exchange for that extra human feat and +1 skill point per level. In addition, you can start with CHA 20. Imagine your saves... And you need CHA for DC, talking skills and bonus spells, anyway.

 

Weapon Specialisation is definitely not the ultimate feat as +2 damage is not all that much compared to a powerful spell but it's still pretty useful. Once again - depends on your playing style as well.

 

Weapon specialisation may not be an Ultimate but 4 Fighter levels and +2 to damage can make a melee char out of anyone.
My straight Divine caster was really bad at the frontlines. I had to give her a sling later on as she was doing so little damage.

The spell resistance makes up for a lot Chev. Add to that the bonuses to Dex and Int along with Favoured Class: Wizard make him the ultimate for me. And the ECL cant even be felt by the time we get to Kuldahar.

 

You might want to consider a tiefling for your rogue/wizard--you still get +2 Dex/+2 Int, rogue as a preferred class, and you only have a 1 level ECL.

 

The ECL doesn't matter when you're throwing fireballs around. It starts to matter when you have to get another 10+K XP to be able to cast Mordenkainen's Sword, let alone 8-9th level spells.

Bonus to INT is only an advantage in its own right when you start at INT 20. Otherwise it's just 2 stat points you can spend however you wish.

Weapon Specialisation makes difference when you're low level, don't have magic cast on you, your weapon is crappy etc. But later on, when you hit for 15-20 points, 2 point don't matter much. When you have access to 2nd level spells, Bull's Strength gives you that. And not only to damage but also to hit. Then comes Holy Power - +4 to damage. Don't forget all kinds of Bless, Prayer and the like. When higher levels come, you get more boosts and more potent ones. Two points of damage from Weapon Specialisation plus some improvement to your BAB from fighter levels pale before those. Also, when you're 4 cleric levels ahead, you're 2 spell levels ahead. Means you can summon bigass elementals much earlier. What does +2 damage matter when you can get an elemental pound the victim for you?

When you get the right spells, your cleric will own in melee. I had a Morninglord of Lathander who didn't have a single combat feat, not even Weapon Focus in mace. And he frontlined. He had more kills than that finessed ranger with two short swords and a bow.

 

Thanks you all for your input! Very much appreciated.

When I get home from work tonight I'll be assembling my party and I'll let you all know how it turns out. Thanks again.

 

Have a good time and don't worry, you'll probably finish the game anyway. The only way to blow it is to go the finesse route - but even that can be done (I've played a paladin/fighter/ranger/monk with 8 STR and 8 CON at start).

 

Ok, I've narrowed it down to two parties. One is a party of 4, the other being a party of 5. I'll break them down for you and see what you all think:

Human or Half-Orc
Fighter(4)/Barbarian(X)
STR-20, DEX-18, CON-18, INT-3, WIS-12, CHA-1

Human Aasmair
Paladin(2)/Sorcerer(X)
Skills: Alchemy, Concentration, Diplomacy, Spellcraft
STR-8, DEX-12, CON-14, INT-16, WIS-10, CHA-20

Shield Dwarf
Battleguard of Tempus(X)
Skills: Concentration
STR-18, DEX-18, CON-20, INT-3, WIS-18, CHA-2

Drow
Rogue(2)/Wizard(X)
Skills: Concentration, Disable Device, Hide, Knowledge Arcana, Move Silently, Open Lock, Pick Pocket, Search, Spellcraft.
STR-10, DEX-20, CON-14, INT-20, WIS-12, CHA-5

OR

Human or Half-Orc
Fighter(4)/Barbarian(X)
STR-20, DEX-18, CON-18, INT-3, WIS-12, CHA-1

Human Aasmair
Paladin(2)/Sorcerer(X)
Skills: Alchemy, Concentration, Diplomacy, Spellcraft
STR-8 , DEX-12 , CON-14 , INT-16 , WIS-10 , CHA-20

Shield Dwarf
Fighter(4)/Battleguard of Tempus(X)
Skills: Concentration
STR-18, DEX-16, CON-20, INT-3, WIS-18, CHA-2

Drow
Rogue(2)/Wizard(X)
Skills: Concentration, Disable Device, Hide, Knowledge Arcana, Move Silently, Open Lock, Pick Pocket, Search, Spellcraft.
STR-10, DEX-20, CON-14, INT-20, WIS-12, CHA-5

Wild Elf
Druid(X)
Skills: Concentration
STR-8, DEX-20, CON-16, INT-8, WIS-18, CHA-6

As you can see, with the party of 5 I added another healer(Druid/Cleric) and changed how I made my Shield Dwarf. Instead of putting all his levels into Cleric, I gave him 4 Fighter levels. I guess the question I have to answer is will I be ‘ok’ with one healer in the party or is it worth taking an additional healer and going to 5 members? If any of you have any input on this that would be great!

[ August 13, 2004, 00:03: Message edited by: Setzer ]

 

One healer is usually enough. If you take 2 then you can make one of them more of a tanker (as you seem to have done). You could always go for the Druid to get a bit of variety.

 

One Healer should be enough. I have only one for my 6 person party (also battleguard) and since i use her magic mostly for healing (and some animate dead)it is enough. The battleguard makes quite a good tank and don't need the fighterlevels. You can eventually take them in HOF.

 

Ok, if I do go the 5 party route I'll make the Wild Elf a Druid. Variety is good.

How do my builds look, as far as attributes?

 

You should minimize the intelligence for the characters that dont need more than one skillpoint (cleric, tank and druid.) Minimize charisma for everyone but the sorcerer and you should get some extra ability-points for other places. Use either ½orc or Shield Dwarf for your main tank to get 20 Str/con. And DON'T MULTICLASS THE CLERIC until it can cast leves 8 spells. otherwise it looks good