Most over rated fighter?

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What is the most over rated fighter in your opinions?

Remember this is only counting pure fighter classes/subclasses and the kits, this means Fighter + kits, Ranger + kits, Paladin + Kits, Monk and Barbarian.

This does not count other classes and kits that may be very good at fighting or very versatile such as the Swashbuckler and Bard, it also excludes multi and dual classes.

Can be any race and goes on the assumption that they are both using the best Items available to them that are only vanilla, so anything that is only a one off doesn't count, Nethier do str belts since you can only get one of each type, or Celestial fury or Carsomyr etc.

Well anyway that's the end of rant, I'm sorry if it's too long but I feel it's nessecary to spell out exactly what I'm after considering how broad options can be with equipment ans class mixes etc so here goes.


IMO I think that the Kensai is the most over rated fighter in the game, although he dishes out monster damage with each hit and in general never misses more then two or three times in a row and never more then twice at max level, he is still fairly pathetic IMO and this is why.

All he can do is fight, you can use paladins for self buffing and even offensive and other benificial casting with him, and the same with the ranger, the monk has better resistances and saves, the wizard slayer is obvious looking at his abilities, and the Kensai? well he can only fight and nothing else, combine with the fact he can't wear any armor, or gauntlets which is only made up for by heavy melee bonuses, ok so he meay be able to get his AC down to -5 (7 if evil) but if he can go that low what about the others? and in any case a level 20 Barbarian would likely beat a level 20 Kensai with his 20% damage resistance, rage and ability to wear armor anyway.

So even though the Kensai can beat the **** out of most people in Melee fighterwise he definately isn't a good choice for a PC.

 

A high level Kensai will chew any of the above into little enemy shaped chunky bits.

IMO the most over-rated would be the vanilla Ranger. Not good.

Paladins are under-rated aswell imo. But Kensai are the best . Especially when mixed with a mage or thief.

 

I like those Kensai as well. I keep telling myself I'll try one specialized in Axes (or possibly Hammers, if I want to play a Dwarf) since thrown Hammers and Axes use the melee skill.

When dual classed to Mage or Thief, those Kensai are even nastier!

I don't like Archers. They're nasty and all, but if I want an archer, I'll pick up Mazzy.

 

Paladins are overpowered, especially with the slack RPing restrictions.

Any paladin in any campaign I ran as a DM had better be damned careful in adhering to his code. The slightest deviation will result in him being a feat-less fighter. Unfortunately, this is not the case in BG2 which makes Paladins THE most powerful melee class in the game, especially with Cheese-o-myr +6.

Kensais are awesome, dualed or straight. At high levels, AC does not really matter anymore. That Fire Giant will hit a fighter in full-plate and shield almost as often as he will hit an unarmored kensai. With his damage and speed bonuses, however, a kensai will most likely chunk that Fire Giant before he even gets to attack.

Over-rated? Not really. Most people prefer a Berserker over the Kensai anyway for added flexibility and the ability to rage (and therefore gain immunities to various spells and effects).

I would say that the Wizard Slayer is overrated, though. The inability to use magic items is not too big an issue, but it's definitely an annoying hinderance, especially when you get to TOB where everyone has a Boots of Speed and your PC is trudging behind. His (unmodded) MR is virtually negligible, his spell failure ability is nice, but you actually have to HIT the mage for it to work.

The Wizard Slayer is truly an interesting concept, but it is badly implemented, which is a pity.

 

Okie, here we go again, me defending the Wizard-Slayer, the greatest class of 'em all!


1. The 10% spell failure stops every spell-like ability on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE!! This means that it'll get harder to rage if you meets a barbarian, set traps if you fights against thieves and most of all, it stops all kind of enemies spellcasting. Nethier Mellisan nor Irenicus is immune to this so it stops most of their effects totally as they WILL survive 10 blows. But remember this exception; spelltriggers and contegnicy(sp?) spells WILL work no matter the hits. Bows also use the effect, so GWW with a fast bow and the mage is no more.

But remember, it only gives you 99% no matter the hits and IIRC each blow works for one hour.

2. Stoneskinned spellcasters will get effected, so will improved mantled ones as well. No matter your protection, you will always be affected by this hizadrous spell failure as long as you hit the enemy with the roll. This makes all these blows against a stoneskinned, fireshield protected mage actually useful.


3. Magic resistance may be low, 2% per level, but at the time he reaches level 20, he gets 5% every 2 levels, ending up in 90% magic resistance. Add this to other bonuses you get in the game and you will have well over 100%, which IIRC, makes you healed by magic damage. Not too sure about that one though.

4. To sum up most of the posts about if he should get dual-classed or not:
DON'T DUALCLASS HIM!! He will get more powerfull in the end, dualclassing ruins him totally.

5. Also, he can use several of the magic items, like the necklace you get in the beginning of ToB by the Queen Elf, and the boots of speed is avaible to him as well, and so is potions as well. Any other things said is just myths, nothing else.


Ps.
I really should change my title to "The Defender of all Wizard-Slayers."
Ds.

 

That's strange. In one of my games as a Wizard Slayer, his spell failure attack did not work unless the mage in person was actually damaged by the blow.

It did not work on other non-spell casting foes as well...

But then again, it might just be me...

 

I think you might be wrong Shura. As far as I remember, even stoneksin doesn't protect the wizard from the spell-failure hits of a wizardslayer.

 

I missed one thing, and that is at when the Wizard-Slayer starts gaining 5% MR every second level, he also gains one more percent every odd level, leaving him at exactly 100% MR at level 40. All bow to the glory of the Wizard-Slayer, including the ***** inquistors.

 

It has been proven long ago that a Berserker can take on a Kensai and live.
So don't bet on it.
Anyway, the Kensai deserves his reputation.

The most overrated fighter is the pure fighter.
At the same level is the Inquisitor... I'll take a Cavalier or Undead Hunter over one anytime, solo-unwise.

 

Why is a pure fighter overrated? I haven't read anything that praises a pure fighter or seen many people picking it as their character... In order to be overrated, doesn't it need some positive popular opinion first?

 

Most of the fighter-NPC's in BG2 is one.
It's not exactly overrated, but not many fighters are.

 

Velve.

Ok, if I was to keep a straight Wizard-SLayer, what weapons and magic items etc would you recommend.

I always felt that dual classing to thief and getting UAI would be ok since the inherent MR and Carsomyr (Shura's Cheese-o-myr ) plus other magic items now usable would make 100% MR or more.

I don't know the details but I felt that it would be better to dual to thief, but you spill the beans and details please.

 

Kashraj, you equip yourself with the Answerer in order to bring down your powerful enemies magic resistance and AC, 15% and -2AC for every hit, and it's culmulative. In the off-hand it's really your choise which weapon or shield to use, or if you just would like to use one-handed style.

Then you equip yourself with the boots of speed, the necklace you get from the Queen Elf and the Vhailor's helmet, as you then get TWO wizard-slayers with 10% culmulative magic resistance.

Then, in the end, you rquip yourself with lots of potions, a LOT of them, as the wizard-slayer is bound to be hit sometimes, as often as any other with his AC.

Don't turn yourself to a slayer, as you will lose the 10% magic resistance, and wield any armor you can find, and wield it so the other weak classes gets ashamed in comparison.

 

Wizard Slayers can use the Amulet of Seldarine? Boots of Speed? Vhailor's Helmet? Well, I can see the helm, since that can be considered part of the character's armor. But the other things are magic items that Wizard Slayers are NOT supposed to be able to use, by the class description. Looks to me like yet ANOTHER exploitable bug. It's not a fair arguement to make about how good a class is when part of the arguement includes exploiting bugs guys. The Wizard Slayer is not supposed to be able to use ANY magic items, save armor and weapons. It's like people that want to tout the Monk because it can use Keldorn's Armor. Not a fair arguement for how good the class is.

Just my opnion here, but if you want to talk about how good or bad a class is, talk about it the way it is intended (ie. based on the description of the class).

 

It is not bugs, they have reported in the official forums ages ago and they didn't fix it with the patches. The boots are considered non-magical and the amulet is allowed as it is given to you, and all classes can use it, so that you, you and only you WILL use it. For rp-ing purposes really. Search on it on the official boards if you may, but it is really old stuff as it is pre-patch posts.

 

I didn't think Wizard Slayers were allowed to even drink potions. I also agree that the amulet and the boots of speed should be a no-no.

 

Just because it was reported on the boards and not fixed in a patch does NOT mean it isn't a bug. There are a LOT of 'bugs' that were not ever fixed by patches. A good example is the Monk exploit I mentioned above. Why do you think Balderdash has put out their very popular, and rather in-depth fixpack?

And how can you say Boots of Speed are not magical items? If that is some kind of excuse that Bioware gave, then that's just what it is, an excuse.

Look, the fact is that the description of a Wizard Slayer states, very explicitely, that they are NOT supposed to be able to use ANY magic items save armor and weapons. Anything that confers special abilities (including supoerhuman speed) is magical. IE. you are exploiting bugs. I'm not trying to hate on you for it. Go ahead and exploit to your hearts content. The important things is that you enjoy the game when your playing. That is truly all the matters. All I'm saying is if you're going to have a discussion about the power of a class, base it on the class as it is meant to be, and don't throw out exploits (be it bugs Bioware never knew about, or Bioware's laziness in not fixing a bug).

Just my opinion on this though.

 

If I remember correctly, wizard-slayers were /made/ potions-alright by ToB. I also think the boots were in that package. I suppose they were meant to drink them after all

 

It should be noted that the kensai CAN use the Big Metal Unit, if you actually manage to get it. I had my kensai with the BMU, dual welding the flail and the crom, with roughly +20 to hit and a -18 AC or so. Sure I'm a powergamer. I make no excuses.

 

Frankly I think the kensai is overrated. Compared to most other fighters you spend far too long worrying about his health points. Sure he dishes out damage pretty damn quick but his low AC makes him very difficult to keep alive. Sure late game AC means next to nothing vs. fire giants but try getting a kensai to there. Getting beaten up by shadows or shreaded by orc arrows certainly isn't my idea of fun. Give me plate mail, sword and shield or SK a kensai/thief to get UAI then plop armor on him and a shield to finally have a fighter you don't have to babysit all the damn time.

Kensais can dish it out, but they can't tank/take it.

Well Aldeth a simple explantion would be that Boots ARE armour since its assumed that boots come with a suit of full-plate, so I'd imagine a magical suit of full-plate would include a magical pair of plate-boots. However this is not constant considering how wizard slayers can't wear (IIRC) magical helmets, bracers, gloves or other boots. A wizard slayer should (by definition) not be able to use magical rings, potions, amulets/necklaces, wands, rods, cloaks and chargeable items. He should be able to use magical helms, bracers, gauntlets, weapons, armour, boots and shields.

[ February 03, 2004, 02:52: Message edited by: Abomination ]