Make My Party!

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OK, given that it appears my last party is entirely screwed, I've decided to try a different party with Sarelith. No more of that goody-goody crap though, I'm willing to take on other NPCs this time, although none that are inherently evil that Sarelith would have a problem traveling with (so I guess that eliminates Korgan, Viconia, and Edwin).

So, I'm up for just about any combination of characters and any PC. However, I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate all of the following weapons, and having trouble:

Crom Faeyr
Axe of the Unyielding
Flail of the Ages
Imp. Mace of Disruption
Impaler

I wouldn't have any qualms about dual wielding either, so it's more than possible to have one of those weapons on the same character.

So what's the consensus here?

 

-Your PC could be a cleric/ranger, wielding Crom and IMoD – check!
-Jaheria (because you start with her) could be your other healer/fighter type, wielding staves and/or scimitar/shields
-Sarelith should be wielding Carsomyr (I love that sword)
-Minsc (because you start with him) could wield impaler – check
-Haer’dalis can wield FoA and Axe of the Unyielding, and is your backup arcane caster.
-Now just decide who your mage is going to be.

One of about 100 ways you could go .

 

Well, the mage is most likely going to be Imoen. Sarelith would likely be none-too happy about leaving her behind, especially since that's the whole point of the story line up to that point.

It is interesting that you picked a R/C PC, as that was my initial thought as well. I was thinking:

PC R/C Dual-wielding FoA/Crom
Sarelith dual-wielding Foebane and that Hammer you can buy in the mod whose name escapes me (she comes with ** in bastard swords and war hammers, so this is a choice of convenience)
Minsc dual wielding AotU, and IMoD (he comes with ** in maces and ** in two weapon style)
Valygar using Impaler (comes with ** in spears)
Jan who will use Firetooth
Imoen who will likely use Tuigan/Gesen Bow.

Like you said though, there's about 100 different ways to go with this, so I'm taking suggestions. Your way also allows use of Carsomyr though, so that does bear mentioning.

 

Just curious: Why are you worried about the Improved Mace of Disruption? It's only useful in certain situations, so just uneqip whatever primary weapon any character is using, and use the IMoD when fighting bloodsuckers!

 

Klorox is right, a pc R/C can use Crom, Imod and FoA with no trouble. Thats 3 out of 5.

Valygar is the only nps who starts with spears, so he should take Impaler. Just seems such a waste of the 2 ** in katanas and dual-wielding, but meh. I sure hope you have Item Upgrade if you plan on using Impaler.

No matter who you pick for AoU they are going to need to put two stars into axes. I recommend Keldorn because he can use Long Swords until you get AoU, and being a single class will have ample time to get two stars into axes and two weapon style if you prefer. The addational abilities of being an Inquisitor are also great to have and definitely has a bunch of banters with Saerilith.

The other axe option in Minsc whom I would not recommend because he has no real advantages over Keldorn that beat out the Inquisitor abilities.

 

I do have the IUM, but even without it, the Impaler actually out-damages Celestial Fury, even assuming you have an offhand weapon that provides you with an additional attack.

Base CF: 1d10+3 at 3.5 attacks per round:

Hit Rolls (assuming a high level character with very good THAC0 that only misses with a critical miss):

1 critical miss
2-19 hit
20 critical hit
5% of additional 20 damage

Damage per round: 3.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (7 * 0.9) + (14 * 0.05) + (20 * 0.05)] = 28

Improved CF: 1d10 + 5 at 3.5 attacks per round

Same THAC0 results but damage increases:

3.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (8 * 0.9) + (15 * 0.05) + (20 * 0.05)] = 31.325

Impaler (base):

1d6 + 3 + 10 at 2.5 attacks per round:

Hit Rolls (using same assumptions):

1 critical miss
2-18 hit
19-20 critical hit

Damage per round: 2.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (16.5 * 0.85) + (33 * 0.1)] = 43.31 (rounded)

Improved Impaler: 1d6 + 4 + 10 at 2.5 attacks per round (not that with the long bow rate of fire, you may actually get 3.5 attacks per round with improved Impaler, but I'm being conservative).

Same THAC0 results, but damage increases:

Damage per round: 2.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (17.5 * 0.85) * (35 * 0.1)] = 45.94 (rounded)

In other words, Impaler completely OWNS CF in terms of damage, with or without the IUM.

 

It doesn't take much to get Jaheira proficient in spears. She's deadly with Impaler.

 

There are some significant problems with that math. First, the damage. How do you get 4 as the average damage off of a 1d10 for normal CF and then 3 for Improved CF? Meanwhile, you get the Impaler's 3.5 average damage perfect. There's also problems with the critical calculations. Impaler's +10 piercing damage is put on a separate line, and thus does not get increased by a critical, to say nothing of the magical bonus of a weapon not being doubled. So let's try again, shall we?

CF: 3.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (8.5 * 0.9) + (14 * 0.05) + (20 * 0.05)] = 32.725
Imp. CF: 3.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (10.5 * 0.9) + (16 * 0.05) + (20 * 0.05)] = 39.375
Impaler: 2.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (16.5 * 0.85) + (20 * 0.1)] = 40.0625
Imp. Impaler: 2.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (17.5 * 0.85) + (21 * 0.1)] = 42.4375

So yes, it's better, but not by as much as it looked with your math. However, these numbers do not take into account STR & proficiency bonuses, which would affect the numbers unevenly due to number of attacks (hits) per round. It's likely those numbers would skew towards the Impaler since they are included in criticals, though. (I'm 99% sure STR is included in criticals, but I'm not sure about proficiency.)

 

OK, you're right, I screwed up on the +10 piercing damage being doubled on a critical, but I don't understand what you mean for CF. I don't see a "4" anywhere on either line for CF. And the only 3 I have is for the multiplier of 3.5 for number of attacks. Still, if you were only trying to show that my math was off, I agree.

 

Criticals double everything. With the STR and proficiency bonuses stacking with attacks/round, I would expect CF on top again.

Damage works out thusly, as far as I have been able to tell:

({[Base Weapon Damage + Proficiency Bonuses] x Backstab Multiplier} + STR) x Critical Multiplier

EDIT: forgot about elemental damage That isn't doubled on a Critical in BG, although it is in IWD2 and NWN, possibly due to the change in canon. Or maybe it was in 2e, but BG ignored it. Who knows? /me looks to Felinoid...

 

When you had 7 & 8 for the damages, that's 4 & 3 plus the enchantment bonus (3 & 5, respectively).

 

Hmmm... Now that you mention it, I have no idea how or why I came up with 7 and 8 for those numbers. A non-magical katana has an average damage of 5.5, so obviously, regardless of the plus involved, a magical katana would have to be X.5 - it can't possibly work out to be a whole number. Upon rereading that post, I'm as confused as you are.

Let me take a stab at figuring in the proficiencies and strength adjustments - despite the blatant incompetence I have shown in the calculations thus far. We will, of course, have to make some assumptions. I'll assume that the characters have specialization in the weapons (2 stars) and we'll take a high, but by no means titanic strength. Let's go with something like 19 (a common number considering the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength is available fairly early on in the game, and is probably the first strength enhancing item you acquire - alternatively, if you played through BG1 with a character that had 18/xx strength it would be 19 by the start of SoA). I'm also assuming the 5% chance of getting 20 points of additional damage for CF aren't doubled.

OK, so specialization gives an additional +2 to damage, and a 19 strength gives +7 to damage, both of which are included in criticals. So all the weapon damages have to be increased by 9, and the criticals increased by 18.

So, copying your lines (because my calculations sucked) and adding in the appropriate factors we'd have:

CF: 3.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (17.5 * 0.9) + (32 * 0.05) + (20 * 0.05)] = 64.225 ~ 64
Imp. CF: 3.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (19.5 * 0.9) + (34 * 0.05) + (20 * 0.05)] = 70.875 ~71
Impaler: 2.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (25.5 * 0.85) + (38 * 0.1)] = 63.6875 ~ 64
Imp. Impaler: 2.5 * [(0 * 0.05) + (26.5 * 0.85) + (39 * 0.1)] = 66.0625 ~ 66.

So actually (if my math is right - a big assumption) CF comes out ahead. Especially considering the fact that we're assuming you're using an additional weapon like Belm or Kundane to get the 3.5 attacks from CF. While Belm or Kundane won't add a lot to your total damage per turn, they will add something. However, there is one aspect where these calculations may be off. In the description for the Improved Impaler, it says it has a long bow rate of fire. As I'm sure you are aware, a fighter/ranger/paladin of level 13 with specialization in long bows does in fact get more than 2.5 attacks per round. In fact, he gets 3.5 - the same amount you get with CF. If that multiplier is added in the numbers work out differently. Regular Impaler isn't changed - it's still 64. But Improved Impaler would jump all the way to 92.