Jealous Lover Program

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I won't waste time summarising what's going to be linked anyway. So here goes the whole original text:

From Yahoo.

Now that you've read the story is time for some discussion. What do you think about the program? The idea itself, the way it was executed and disguised. What about the sentence the author and users are facing? Especially the author. To me, 175 years where no life has been taken, no wound inflicted and no property taken or destroyed, looks extreme.

About the program... It's hardly a display of love. It's not so much a lover's jealousy as a possessive urge to have something you can control. There are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed and hacking into someone's computer is one of those. Reading e-mails and messages same.

Things stop being so black and white when it comes to recording someone's surfing history, though. If there are reasons to distrust a romantic partner, the person has been caught lying already and so on, then perhaps it isn't so wrong to look into the person's history. At least if we are talking about joint property, someone using your computer or whatever. But it still feels quite low. Recording that kind of history goes one step further. I can think of situations where I wouldn't overly frown on it but I can't really see myself doing it. Reading someone's mails without permission? Damn, it's already awful when permission is asked for such things.

Don't get me wrong. I know how to piece things together from publicly acessible information and I know where to seek. I know when to shut up and listen or how to ask questions. I seem to have a knack for figuring things out. But come on. Hacking into mailbox or cracking a password is not the same as typing a couple of words into google. Following the tracks when something is wrong is one thing, spying on someone just-in-case is something completely different, at least on the motivational level. There is a difference between verifying received information (if someone claims something is true -- after all, there is no right to lie uncaught), making sure about some dubious things (there are things you deserve to know and asking the person isn't always the best way -- such as finding out if the person is really single, puts out easily, keeps promises, abuses animals, has been convicted of a crime... etc etc), even doing some research that helps you in making decisions such as starting a relationship, getting engaged/married etc, and a general watching of every step the person makes and snooping into private things.

If my romantic partner, especially a new one, or a person who is interested, found something bad about me from publicly available sources, I would blame myself for leaking things out or saying something stupid rather than blame that person. In general, if someone looks for public information about me, I'll be flattered by the interest or impressed by the person's resourcefulness rather than offended in my privacy. But correspondence, SMS-es, PMs... Especially things which are specifically marked as confidential. It's grounds for break-up in my book. Reading text messages on the phone probably too. Hacking into anything password protected definitely. I couldn't take that. How about you?

 

There are similar programs that you can install on your own home computer to watch your spouse's/roommate's activities on a shared computer, and while those are perfectly legal, they show a definite lack of trust. This Loverspy thing, though, is nothing more or less than an e-mail virus. I'm not terribly surprised that they came down hard on this guy (and the people who bought and used it), but 175 years seems a little steep.

 

Even though I might understand why someone would find this an interresting solution to an ongoing feeling that things ain't as they ought to be, I just can't accept it. Hacking into someones mails, observing his or hers online activities, reading SMS's and so on is simply just a no-no in my book. Despite whatever reason might lay as ground for doing this. One thing is seeking information about someone via search engines like google, another is using a low program like this lovspy in order to observe ones 'lovers' every step!

I absolutely agree with chev that this comes from a wish to control your life partner rather than love. What has happende to fundamental values like trust? Wanting to know more about someone you might have been talking with online, or met through some friends or similar, and then spying on a lover is two separate things.

Though facing 175 years of imprisonment is a rather harsh sentence, which I can't by no means accept, I still feel something ought to be done. If I found that my girlfriend was secretly lurking on what I might do, that be online on my computer, or in any other connection, I would definitely feel that my boundaries had been overstepped by miles! And, I think that this should be looked upon as illegal computer hacking, just as if I were to by some means read your e-mails or any such.

To summarize what I'm saying: Yes the punishment(Or rather the possible punishment) are harsh, but somewhat well deserved. And the offender can't by no means say that he/she did nay had this coming. I think that the Program is a very low and filthy way of abusing not only the one whos e-mails had been recorded, but also the jealous mind of an narrow-minded lover.

 

I guess that the jealous Lovers would be exposed as such, and those that want to cheat on them would have been exposed, so some sham marriages will fall, but niether side will likely be innocent there...

The Program is a direct invasion of privacy, and should be dealt with as the courts deem appropriate...

 

Gnarff, I'm just curious... what do you regard as a direct invasion of privacy? Only the recording of e-mails or also the tracking of surfing history? Either way, I will tend to agree, except I believe that sometimes, perhaps, it might be justifiable for a spouse to look through the other spouse's history on a shared computer or perhaps even a work computer or some such, in such cases as a porn or cyber flirt/sex addiction problem to deal with. Never, though, just to see if the person has been faithful if there's nothing concrete.

Anyway, dating websites are a public thing. Blogs are a public thing and so are personal websites. Dating sites with profiles also. You need only to handle the google search with some diligence to get some samples of the person's online activity in a perfectly legal way. Myself, if a prospective girlfriend had internet access and were active in the internet, I surely would read her blog/personal site and things she posts on discussion boards before jumping into a relationship, to know more about the person's web incarnation, so to say, personality, views, values, priorities... even consistency of image and self-image with the real self. Sure, you won't get confidential information this way (you will find the person's profiles and posts but not PMs, sites where he/she has registered but not sites where he/she has been etc), but that would be spying.

 

Well, here goes - 1st foray into this 'sharp lane'


spybot-boy deserves everything he gets - he trafficed software for the purpose of monitoring OTHER PEOPLE'S COMPUTERS - you don't send an 'email greeting' to someone you share a keyboard with, you draw a heart on a piece of paper, write some sweet passage and tape it to the monitor.

Technically, this man aided & abetted as many as 1000 counts of stalking/privacy intrusion/computer hacking - he provided the tools with which other people could break the law...MANY people. The 'up to 175 years' here is modified by the sheer NUMBER of the charges he's up against.

Example: you make 'slim jim' tools and then sell them to the public (a strip of metal that fits down into a car door and opens lock - only permitted to be possessed by law enforcement), you sell 100 of them before the cops find out and shut you down. Then a total of five car thefts are committed and proven to be done with the tools you provided.

A) you're getting a BUNCH of charges for facilitating crimes; and B) as an accomplice that provides material aid to the primary party, you're subject to the FULL sentence of EACH crime you assisted in - five counts of grand theft auto added to your docket.

And some property WAS destroyed in this case: the victim's privacy; something considered VERY valuable in the eyes of the law.

But, now that I've said my piece, my Inner Cynic is rearing it's ugly head: the real reason the courts are being so severe in this case is that hacker boy is trying to muscle in on the government's turf; Big Brother doesn't tolerate his little siblings...

 

I can see why people would be tempted but it's not a good thing. It's like the rule on eavesdroppers : Eavesdroppers never hear anything good about themselves

 

Yeah, that's how it works in the Anglo-Saxon systems. In Poland and generally in continental Europe, you get charged with everything and sentenced for everything and all accounts, but prison terms don't add up much above the highest individual one. If it's a series of crimes from one paragraph, you can get up to 150% of the upper limit. I think this makes a bit more sense. If you add it up, three robberies can probably get you more years than homicide.

 

chev, if you do not trust your partner perhaps it is time to end the relationship instead of investing in programs to spy on him/her?

 

That's what I've been trying to say. It's sort of beyond how people can lower themselves to reading someone's correspondence. I've been betrayed and deceived so many times that trust comes really hard to me and I have a real eye for anything from a tiny lie to major bull**** (believe me or not, I can detect inconsistency with what a person said months ago in an unimportant conversation... it just rings) and yes, I know how to find out about stuff. But reading someone's mail? Come on. That's way, way too much. It's like reading someone's letters. Installing spying devices? Come on. That's so low. Besides, as you say, it's better to cut the relationship already. My rule is: one lie and you are out. I don't ask or insist on being told about things but I call on any direct or gross inconsistency in information already available to me, if it looks intentional or the matter is serious. I take word of honour on things that deny laws of physics, but imagine what happens when it's broken.

I'm trying to find some excuse for users of the program, especially if they're going to go to jail for it, but I'm failing. I would give them a non-jail non-fine sentence and a suspended jail term if it depended on me, but the second time they wouldn't have it easy. It's wrong. I don't want to be harsh on them. I know how it feels to have been cheated or deceived and to fear it could happen again. I know how uncertainty feels all too well, up to the point where your pulse is running and your lungs just won't let you breathe. But spyware is just damn wrong. As lying is a perfect way to lose me, so is reading my mail without permission.

[ August 29, 2005, 00:44: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

I would somewhat tend to agree with you here. But I believe that the users of this program need a somewhat tougher lesson than the solution you're providing would earn them. I would go as far as to say that only the providers and the creator of this program should be facing jail sentences; nevertheless I feel that the ones who actually used this program should at least have to dig in deep in their pockets!
Not only do I regard this as computer hacking, but also the very same as if they were to read my personal letters; and quite frankly I would be pissed if I found that anyone, that be a girlfriend, friend or close family, had read my personal letter without my approval.