Is the rogue expendable?

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I have been trying to create a 6 man party and I've been trying to do it with classes that I like and at the same time strong enough to withstand until HoF mode. And all was going well until I realized the fact that whatever you do you'll always need a rogue, well that's what I think at least. I want to know if you guys have tried playing a party without one, and if there is a possible way to multi-class a rogue into something powerful. I'm not talking about the usual rogue(1)wizard(29)combo, I'm serious man I'm beginning to hate the rogue class! I mean it has no real use except for finding and disarming traps, and opening locks. And it's class feats are nothing to get excited about either. I want to know what you guys think, thanks.

 

The only think I use a rogue for in that game is talking, and stealth, as in scotting ahead. Those things can be replaced, I know (Ranger for stealth, but rangers are pretty pathetic in IWD, and sorcerer or bard for talking), but I still find Rouges unexpendable.

About the multiclassing, even just something like a fighter/rouge has great potential. The sneak attack combinded with the fighters feats is deadle.

I also found playing Rouge/Sorcerer (50/50) great fun, and really powerful. Sneaking in to the center of an army, then throwing out a bunch of deadly spells, then running and hiding from their anger, is great! Or it could be that I just like throwing out spells left right and center.

But in the end, I hate going through any game with out a rouge.

 

I think that the Rogue is definetly a critical party character. I too am running a 50/50 rogue/ sorcerer and I think he's really fun to play with. He talks for the group, scouts, backstabs, casts improved invis. and backstabs again, stands right in the middle of a fight casting spells and backstabbing to his heart's content. He's really versatile. His high Dex, shield, rings, amulet, and cloak have his AC over 30 so he's almost impossible to hit in normal mode. Plus if I'm using improved Invis or blur the other guys miss completely most of the time. It makes up for his low strength. I don't get why people think the Rogue isn't any good in hand-to-hand. Maybe not a level one rogue but later on they're nearly as useful as a straight fighter. Gives a use for the touch spells like Vampiric Touch or Lich touch. Nice alternative to backstabbing sometimes.
I started a Monk/Rogue once too but didn't have the patience to get him too high enough level for him to be useful. I still think it'd be fun to use Quivering Palm as a backstab.

 

Firstly, a Rogue is certainly not ESSENTIAL in Icewind Dale II. There are hardly any important traps or locks that matter that much. The only reasons to have a Rogue in IW2 are:
- to save your spellcasters having to use Knock
- to save your patience in bashing open locks
- to disarm the traps in the Yuan-Ti temple
- if you like doing Sneak Attack and other specialist rogue options

If you really want one, then the standard multiclasses seem to be:
- Monk of the Old Order (gives the monk somewhere to put his skill points)
- Wizard (for Int)
- Figher (for Weapon Specialisation)
- Ranger (for Two Weapon / Ambidexterity).

But mostly, just go with what is going to be fun.

 

I'm playing a party of only three persons this time , but when they don't get any xp anymore I intend to add another. I think I would go for a bard this time , he could be a nice alternative for the rogue I think!

 

I think what you guys said was great but your multi-classing suggestions will only create a mediocre character. I mean rogue(15) sorcerer(15) is a good character but I had a hard time giving decent ability points. I mean maxing out charisma, intelligence and dexterity is pretty difficult, especially if you want to maintain strength at a base of 10 and maxing out constitution. I even tried to create a rogue(1)druid(29) but i had to cancel it because he didn't have the proper ability points. How about a monk? can you guys give suggestions on the ability points of a powerful rogue(1)monk(29) build? and what race should I use?

 

The monks main stat is WIS. If he does not wear any armour, then his/her WIS score gets added to the AC. If you want to go rouge/monk, then I would take a class that gives a bonus to WIS. I would say take an Assimar. They get a +2 to WIS and CHA. I would know CHA down as far as it would go, then max out WIS and DEX. You should still have about 8 points left, here it becomes your preference. I would put at least two points into INT and STR. After that, it is up to you. Going monk means you need to use WIS and wanting to go rogue means you want some decent INT to get skill points. STR, DEX and CON are always important, so there is not a whole lot you can do by min/max'ing stats.

I have heard that deep gnomes rock, but I have never created one, so i can not vouch for them, nor do I know exactly what they get stat and skill wise, but they may also prove worthy of this build.

 

Deep Gnomes rock in the sense that most of their abilities help to make an untouchable character (esp Spell Resistance). They're not quite as good at dishing out the damage.

I think your difficulties are showing that it is quite hard to come up with an INDISPENSABLE rogue build.

 

Haven't had the need to use a rogue yet. I am soloing a sorcerer/paladin at the moment, and she can open any lock just with a strength buff. Mirror image "absorbs" trap effects quite well. When I was soloing a druid, I discovered the use of shapeshifting for lockpicking. So rogues aren't essential. I also feel rogues aren't as enjoyable as the thief class in the 2nd edition games.

 

Just two levels and the rest ranger or wizard. Ranger is focused on scouting, wizard on searching and disarming. Note that ranger has search as class skill, so that option is generally better if you want a character who performs rogue tasks but has a different role too. My paladin/wizard disarmed traps

 

I'm a bit too strict with myself when it comes to following the true 3E rules. In PnP only rogues can use search to find traps and the only one that can use disbale device to remove magical traps. I just can't justify doing these things in a CRPG without a rogue.

 

My favorite character is a female halfling rogue. I wouldn't solo a rogure/multiclass but in a party I find her extremely helpful. I multiclass rogure/socerer. I've tried other combos but this is my favorite. I haven't done rogue/fighter. Didn't think of it. Don't know why not. She is an excellent fighter. Loves to fight. I have to watch her.

 

Two levels of rogue provide a nice justification and free evasion feat

 

Or you can just take 1 level of monk if you want the evasion ability so badly.