Improved Illyich

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I have just started playing Tactics and was completely caught out by how out of balance the improved Illyich mod is (playing core rules).

My party consists of Cleric, Minsc, Jaheira and Imoen. My party gets completely wiped out by a Shadow Thief, who we can never seem to hit and he hits us every time he swings his sword. Plus there's the wand of cold (or whatever it is), that does huge damage. What level are these Shadow Thieves, because I want one for my PC as they are way tough.

Is it really designed so that you have to rest after each battle? because that's silly and takes the fun out of it.

 

I don't like the Improved Illych portion of the Tactics mod at all. Ridiculously tough if you ask me. It's the one component I have uninstalled and never plan to reinstall. I have no idea what level that shadow thief is, but based on the frequency of the hits, I'd guess somewhere between 100-120 (joking of course).

There are many areas where the Tactics mod is a whole lot of fun, and gets you reacquainted with the reload button in a good way (like with dragons), but just making the first dungeon near-impossible doesn't do anything for me.

 

If you are facing improved shadow thieves in the first dungeon, then you have an older version of the mod. They have all been replaced with duergar parties. Download the newest version by following the link in the list of mods given in the TOB forum.

 

Are the Duergars, easier or harder? It's seems that with the shadow thieves, the only chance is if you have one appear with the polymorph wand, if not you take 30-40 damage and then the party is held, running from fear or take massive cold damage.

I couldn't believe how tough Illyich and his crowd was either. I wanted the game to be tougher, but facing a Gabrezu and Fallen Deva when I am L7-9 is ridiculous. The only way I could defeat everything, was to lure them out one at a time and if the Deva was there I just had to wait for her to be unsummoned.

I might try this new mod (I am using v15 which I got from the Weimer website) with Duegars and I am actually tempted to uninstall this portion as it is now taking so long to just get out of the dungeon.

Now where is that dungeon-be-gone mod.

 

The current version of Tactics is v20. Update to that from http://www.weidu.org

If you think Improved Ilych is ridiculous, then uninstall that componant. It is your option.

If you find this to be "unbalanced" then why did you install Tactics? This is what it does, tip the balance in favor of the enemies instead of in favor of the heroes as all of regular BG2 was. It's the point of this mod. Hell yeah it's hard, it's supposed to be. To the person who said resting after the battle takes the fun away -- this mod is not for you, I recommend you uninstall it. You won't like it.

Improved Ilych can be beaten by a patient, skilled player, using strategy, using the pause button, and using every single possible item you can gain on the entire map before you confront this battle. That is the challenge of Improved Ilych. It is designed for people who find this level of strategizing to be fun.

 

A battle can be hard and strategic and still winable without cheese. And in my opinion, having to rest after every portion of the fight is cheesy. I mean if you are Ilych and a member of your party goes missing for 8 hours, then another goes missing for 8 hours, then another, etc... you'd probably stick together!

 

@ nataben1314 - See my comments on the tactics mod review thread for more on this problem of cheese. All I can say against what you have said is this: I never rest in the dungeon. Without any cheese, I do a full clear of Jonnie's dungeon in 14 hours or less. If I just went for the exit, it would be a very simple matter of just a couple of hours--only duergar patrols would present any problem. If that seems impossible to you, then this portion of the tactics mod is just not for you.

@ Bard - the duergar present a very different kind of problem. The thieves really were a pretty bad, unbalanced idea--you have no way of counteracting any of their abilities. With a few true sight scrolls, maybe things would be different. The duergar, however, are quite sturdy and the mage has a tidy pocket of spells. Don't think you can just run up to them and beat them down.

To all involved, just so I can say it again so that more people hear it: Absolutely no part of tactics mod requires cheese of any kind, and I have very high standards of what is and is not cheese. If you "can't" defeat part of the mod without cheese, uninstall that part of the mod. But it is a problem with the player, not the program.

 

@eric - i like tactical challenges a lot, but in v20 of imp ilych you can't close any doors and ilych's communists stay together *really* close ... sure it's nevertheless an idea to try and lure them away from each other but reloading twenty times until finally they split up and you *can* take out one of them alone is just as cheesy as .. i dunno

i even like some parts of the mod. the duergars are fine with the right resting tactic it usually takes only one dispel magic and a simple healing spell afterwards to go past them; the dialogue with ilych is great - i like the part so much where his followers start to whine "but boss, how we gonna defeat them .. they got the staff +1 ... uhu, but they also got the dagger +1" ... .. i don't know, the ilych fight is just too much for me

out of topic but : i opened a post on the battles-mod mad cleric today, maybe you have some suggestions

 

Improved Ilyich is a Joke. Capital J. Please read its README for further details.

 

Well, I'm going to try the latest version and see how much better that is. Not being able to shut doors will be interesting as this was one way of completing Illyich, it will now be much harder to split them up and there is no way of fighting them all at once.

I did complete Illyich, without resting in the end, but it was very close. Once I beat Illyich himself the rest just fell one-by-one. I now have a new respect for Doom.

The shadow thieves were just plain stupid though. One thief shouldn't be able to wipe out a whole party, so hopefully the Duegars will sort this. Unless I played a Cleric, I had no way of removing fear, especially as it would be cast before you could even see the Thief. And the ice wand, well don't get me talking about that one.

@Col. Bruce Hampton, Retired:
I am playing Tactics as I want a challenge, it shouldn't be impossible. I am expecting a very tough battle, but these fights should be winnable. Fighting a Glabezu and Fallen Deva when you have no weapons (or spells to speak of) that you can use against them is unbalanced.

@jcompton:
Have done. It does make sense (just). I just don't like preparing for a big battle when my characters wouldn't know the enemies were there.

I am going to try it with a couple of different character classes to see if that makes a difference. My Skald was just slaughtered, but my Cleric faired a lot better, even if I did have to use some mini-cheese. I think I will try an Assassin, Blade and Sorcere to see if they fair any better.

 

By the way, interrupting Zhivago's casting is the best way to get around the Fallen Deva. Try to avoid him until you have thinned the herd a bit, then pump him full of arrows, melf's acid arrows, and the like. If you play a sorcerer you can get several acid arrows into him, carving out all his best spells. If you have trouble delaying your encounter with Zhivago, then make your first encounter with the Illych team a "Zhivago hunt." Run in, interrupt his deva summoning, and book it. It can be hard to shake the glabrezu, though, so keep that in mind.

 

Have started the latest version of Improved Illyich. I much prefer the Duegars parties. They are tough, but more feasible. There is a party of 2-3 that nearly wipe me out instead of just one, but it is winnable as long as you use some tactics - and I like that.

Thumbs up for this version so far

 

Great points. Keep up the good convo.

Regarding the summoned Fallen Deva -- "tactics" against this could include interupting the spellcaster; or hiding to outwait the duration of the summon.

 

With the latest version, you can pick up some bows, bullets, bows and slings right at the beginning. This means you have a good chance of interrupting the mages. With the previous version, you only found about 20 arrows on level one before encountering Illyich so this made it even more difficult. Previously I just had to sit it out and wait (hated this as it always seemed lame) - I am happier now.

 

What happened to all the goblin archers? Are they replaced?

 

Yup, apparently with Duergar patrols.

 

I recall there being one Goblin patrol still, just before the Otyugh. At least in the new version you can get bows and arrows, and dont have to reply on them to get some.