If only they had listened to the Lord...

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I was listening in on a conversation the other day about the troubles in the Middle East. Anyways, some guy brought up a point that back in the day (biblical times), the Lord commanded Israel to totally destroy a neighboring nation...guess which.
And that if they would have killed every man woman and child like they were commanded to, there wouldn’t be a Palestine as we know it today. I am trying to find where it is in the Bible, but so far I'm not finding it.

Maybe Mat can help me out, but just think of how much peaceful that section of the middle east would be if their ancestors would have been obedient...

 

I think that... No, I'd rather not say anything. Someone else will come along an express my feelings in a much more pleasant manner.

 

Father, forgive the people in Utah, for they know not what they do.

If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty one... I am become Death, the shatterer of worlds. (J. Robert Oppenheimer at the first nuclear explosion "Trinity")

Jesus, save us.

[ April 08, 2003, 13:52: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

Kitrax, that is not the way I think you should see neither the Bible nor your God.

 

And you call yourself a Christian?

 

So now you can justify genocide, as long as some person on the other side of ether claims it´s in the bible.

But remember that the bible also condemnes actions like masturbating, wearing clothes of two different fibers, swearing, being gay, worshiping a statue, playing American Football, etc..
What if we killed them, because it was there black on white in the bible?

The world has changed, so we can at least change our perspectives and be less condemning.

That would too make the world a bit more peacefull right??

[ April 08, 2003, 20:37: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

And when you have done all that what a biblical cathegory would you apply to yourself? And predicted future thereof...

 

Morgoth, then there wouldn't be any people on Earth anymore...

Creepy...

 

See, that´s what I mean, it would be peacefull (to our standards, even though we don´t exist then)

 

Please don't listen to any idiot that presents his complexes and problems in the place of the words written in the Bible. Jesus said love your neighbour as you love thyshelf not kill your neighbour and you shall be rewarded. And don't forget that throughout time there were some people that munipulated the masses through religion and fear of supersticious to promote their own dubious goals

 

Erm Mithrantir, you also just said we shouldn´t listen to you as well

You have a problem with that type of people, and get the solution from the bible, "Jesus said love your nieghbour"...

Edit:
After a nice PM and some chatting, I´ve seen that I insulted people (No really? )

Anyways, this group of posting was not meant to hurt, hope you can see that

[ April 09, 2003, 12:44: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

'Love thy neighbour' doesn't mean 'have the patience for all your neighbour's whims'.

 

Um...different time, different covenant. True, God did command the children of Israel to destroy those who shared the Promised Land with them - why? Because they worshiped false gods and He knew that Israel would abandon Him to worship those other gods (which they frequently did). ((Read Judges chapters 1-3.))

That was the Old Testament covenant. Since we now live under the Law of Christ, we obey the rules he set down and taught while he lived, as well as the writings of the Apostles. Today, we ARE commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves. Christ teaches that the greatest of all gifts is love.

 

Sort of. Even though you somehow strangely understand the Bible you're not that bad a man.

 

You know, I believe that the fact that I had read the Bible thorough several times before I turned ten is one of the key factors in me becoming an atheist before I turned twelve.

I used to enjoy reading religious texts at one point of time. But when you are ordered to kill just about everyone, you start to wonder, and how-de do, you start losing faith.

In my opinion, the Bible is outdated. It was written in a day and age when people were not as enlightened as we are today. I am sorry if I insult people, but what I mean to say is different times, different ways.

(/soapbox)

 

Rax, Check out...

Numberi 33: 50-56
Deuterenomium 7: 2,16

But maybe you mean Deuteronomy 20:15-17

Edit:
Ara, you're right. We live in a different time. You could call it the Post-Cross Ages.
In stead of 'an eye for an eye' Jesus taught us 'Turn the other cheek' and 'love your enemies'. Lots have changed since Jesus' death. We still still live in that different world.

[ April 08, 2003, 20:52: Message edited by: Master of Nuhn ]

 

Here I come to save the day!

Disclaimer ... I don't have enough time to put this into context...but the Old Testament did MANDATE genocide. The Israelites were supposed to wipe out the pagan nations. This was a sign of God's Holy wrath. The pagan nations of that time did not worship Yahweh. They were sacrificing children to idols, and doing all sorts of atrocities.

As a sign of God's wrath, Israel was supposed to kill all the people and all the animals ... burning all the plunder.

From Joshua 3 ...

A few notes ...
1) This holy wrath was directed to sin within Isreal, not just to the other nations. See Joshua 7

2) For those of you who wonder "What sort of God could allow this" I answer, "A Holy One."
In view of God's ultimate holiness, we all deserve destruction. Ever country (USA, France, Iraq) is fallen away from His Holy Standard. God's command is simple "Be Holy as I am Holy" ... failing that, we earn death and destruction (Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord")
3) Does God still mandate Genocide?
No, and yes. Physically ... HECK NO. No Christian should pick up a gun/sword/bomb and say that it is God's will that a certain nation or group be eliminated from the face of the world. But ... every Christian should be trying to talk about the free gift of grace the Christ has offered. By His death, we no longer face God's wrath. He took our place on the cross, so now we can be covered in His holiness and stand before God as accepted sons & daughters.
I hope this helps. E-mails & PM's are welcome if you want to discuss this more.
- Mat

(ps ... to look up Bible passages or such, here is a great translation http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/ )

[ April 08, 2003, 21:58: Message edited by: Mathetais ]

 

Kitrax, you are what's known as a poop disturber

As was mentioned earlier, after the Exodus, God commanded the Children on Israel to eliminate the people in the land of Canaan. The Israelites lived at that time under the law of Moses, which stated "an eye for an eye." Now, for it's time, that constituted an actual step forward in terms of human relations. if you look earlier in Genesis (before the Law of Moses was revealed), when two of the children of Israel (Levi and Simeon, I believe) felt that their sister had been violated by one man, they went in, tricked the man and his kinsmen, and proceeded to slaughter the whole town! The Mosaic law was a step in the direction of limiting revenge; that is, instead of escalating a situation, you keep things level. Christ took that one step further with his command to love and forgive.

I seriously doubt that a wholesale Canaanite slaughter would have done anything about modern problems.

 

Pretty much ditto what Arabwel said. I've read entirely too much European history (and American, for that matter). I was ok, right up until the point at where I started actually thinking about it.

I will also add these nifty little quotes. They are along I-35, in Kansas:

Now, the "terrorists" are all about rightousness. And the whole "thou shall not shed the blood of they brother" thing gave rise to Pope Urban using a mace and leading from horseback. I'm thinking the first one needs some clarification.

And the punctuation on the second one really needs to be changed around. It sounds like "Accept Jesus Christ, and you will either be saved or you will regret accepting him forever.

 

First, the Bible at one time may have been a good guide to life, however after "King" James had his fun with the book (i'm sure he's burning in hell) it cannot be taken literally. there are so many contraditions it's not even funny.

Second, the Bible as we know it was used to wipe out entire countries, men, women, and children have been slaugtered in the name of "God".
The slavemasters and priests armed with Bibles and guns robbed, raped, and murdered my foreparents in the name of "Jesus". They taught us to pray with our eyes closed, when we opened them we had the bible and they had our land.
I have no love for the Saltlake city morons or mormons or whatever they are but the true source of evil in these times is not the fanactical madmen like Saddam or BinLaden (they still should die) the true source of evil and corruption is the Vatican. (just ask the Mob or a Kennedy).

[We can do without the "morons" reference - BTA]

[ April 08, 2003, 23:48: Message edited by: Blackthorne TA ]