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I keep getting my butt kicked by street thugs.

Discussion in 'Planescape: Torment (Classic)' started by Klorox, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    I'd raise only con until the end of the game. Fast regeneration and extra hitpoints for each character level (not only for the first 9-10 like in BG2) increase TNO's power a lot. The reasons why I wouldn't raise other stats are explained in my previous post.
     
  2. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

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    I'm glad I stuck with the original build. I stuck a +2 STR tattoo on Dak'kon and he's kicking butt now.
     
  3. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Just to nitpick...

    Fighters have 9 hit dice.
    Thieves have 10 hit dice.
    Mages have 11 hit dice.

    The way to get the most hit point is to level 1-9 as fighter first, level 10 as a thief first, and level 11 as a mage first. Then level all the rest as a fighter.

    The fighter bonus at level 7 will allow a strength increase from 18 directly to 19 (skipping over all the exceptional strength increments). Vhailor will also increase from 18 to 19, but not until the end of the game. Otherwise, you spend a point each for increasing to:

    18(01) [+1,+3]
    18(51) [+2,+3]
    18(76) [+2,+4]
    18(91) [+2,+5]
    18(00) [+3,+6]
    19 [+3,+7]

    That's a total of six ability points. If you plan right and jump from 18 to 19 at level 7, you would have a 24 strength [+6,+12] for the same six ability point increases.
     
  4. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

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    Mages have 10 hit dice, as per D&D 2e, unless they did a "special" for this game.
     
  5. Qwinn Gems: 3/31
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    Mages only have 10 hit dice in PS:T.

    Just as a side note, Vhailor's strength bonus will also skip the 18 strength stat ladder. In future versions of my Fixpack, I will be eliminating the exploit of being able to skip that ladder by any means, though I promise I won't do that without also introducing a Maximized Strength/Power of One tweak to ease the pain of that a bit. (What the tweak would do is remove the random component from those spells so that you always get the maximum strength boost from those spells, just like the Maximized Friends Spell tweak. The boost those spells give you depends on the class of the target, from 4 (mage) to 8 (warrior) for Strength, while Power of One gives you 1 additional point but lasts half as long). At this time, I don't expect either of those fixes to be going into the currently pending release. They are two of the very few changes I have planned for a Fixpack 4.0 or the associated Tweak Pack.

    As a correction to something stated above, the Friends spell gets you 2-8 points of charisma, not 5. With my Maximized Friends tweak installed, you always get the 8.

    As for which combat-related stats to boost, since I start with a 13 dex I'll usually boost it to arrive at 18 (you can get +1 via dialogue, for the record) and then do constitution from that point forward. Dex above 18 just isn't worth it unless you're primarily a thief, and even then, still not really worth it. Constitution is worthwhile (for TNO) all the way up to 25.

    Qwinn
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  6. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] I'm all for maximized hitpoints, but achieving level 10 thief all for the benefit of 2 hit points sounds over the top... it puts you way back on leveling your 'main' class.:(
    Is level 7 fighter bonus the only point that you can jump from 18 to 19? what about quest bonuses?
    @ Klorox: Dak'kon has 13WIS, and according to a walkthrough I read, this is high enough to earn him bonus XP. In fact, according to the figures in the table, the +2WIS tattoo goes Dak'kon (13WIS) more good than TNO (18WIS)!
    A Wisdom of 12 and lower, no bonus
    13 gives you about a 2% bonus to experience
    14 5%
    15 8%
    16 10%
    17 13%
    18 15%
    19 18%
    20 20%
    21 23%
    22 25%
    23 27%
    24 30%
    25 35%

    So, with a Wisdom of 25, if you get 1000 experience (assuming you
    have no extra companions to split it) you will actually get 1350
    experience.
     
  7. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    There are no quest bonuses to strength. But there is one NPC who can raise your strength later in the game if you choose the right conversation options.

    Vhailor, who you will find in the Curst Prison, can raise your strength by +1, +2 or +3. You will need to be a fighter (bring Dak'kon and/or Annah if you have to change between classes!) and you must have a Lawful alignment. The degree of your lawfulness decides the STR bonus.
     
  8. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    There are two other strength boosts in the game which can let this stat jump to 19, the last one can't be missed. All three are very late in the game.

    You actually get 3 hit points for adding the 10th thief level, since you also get another hitpoint when the mage reaches level 10, that's 3 hitpoints for 50,000 XP, less than 1/7 of the XP required for a mage level, actually more hitpoints per XP than you get for the 9th fighter level.
    Even taking the 11th thief level yields a character with more hitpoints in the end, you get additional 1+1= 2 hitpoints for 60,000 XP, even with 25 con you get only 1+7=8 hitpoints for an additonal mage level which requires 375,000 XP.

    The wisdom bonus to experience only applies to the nameless one.
     
  9. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] Montresor, according to my walkthrough there are 2 other possible quest bonuses to strength:
    The paranoid incarnation in the fortress of regrets +1STR, and the ancient scroll +2Any Stat.
    kmonster, here's what the walkthrough says about wisdom. I haven't tested it myself, so is the walkthrough mistaken?:confused:
    Wisdom: The best stat in the game, bar none. Wisdom gives a great
    bonus to experience, which in turn leads to the faster gaining
    of levels. Also has an effect on Priests, by giving them
    bonus spells the higher Wisdom they have. But since YOU can't
    be a Priest, that doesn't help. The best effect, however, is
    in the Dialogues where you will get the BEST options, as well
    as the most Recovered Memories, and your "inner voice" will
    even warn you of dangerous dialogue options. Also increases
    your Lore skill.

    Most useful for: Everyone
     
  10. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    [​IMG] kmonster+coineineagh: Yes, I remember those two STR bonuses, now that you mention them. :doh:
     
  11. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

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    Well, there's the level 12 bonus. ;)



    Thanks a lot again guys!
     
  12. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    @coineineagh: I remember someone asking if wisdom grants a bonus to XP to other party members as well in a forum, and since he didn't get an answer he tested it himself. It didn't grant extra XP. If you still have PST installed you won't need more than a few minutes to test it yourself.

    The walkthrough doesn't seem wrong, "everyone" seems to refer to the different classes or playing styles for TNO (fighter/rogue/mage) and not to party members, you don't get better dialogues when Dak'kon has higher wisdom either.

    I don't understand why you put the wisdom descriptions into spoilers, they don't spoil anything, stat tables and descriptions belong into the manual.
     
  13. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    klorox: I stand corrected -- I guess I'm showing my age to think mages (or magic users) have 11 hit dice....
     
  14. Mongerman Gems: 8/31
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    Just start with max wis, 16 int, 13 chr, and remaining into str.

    Max wisdom for obvious reasons
    16 int + tattoo will cover all dialogue checks
    13 chr + bonuses from ingame will also cover most dialogue checks. Cast friends if needed.

    For level up stats, put them into constitution. By end game, with max constitution, you'll be regenerating so fast your hit points dont really matter that much
     
  15. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    None of of the other stats yields a bonus early on that's worth missing the 10 permanent extra HP you get early if you start with 14 con and raise the other stats later instead of the other way around.
     
  16. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

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    Ahh, well. Too late for me now!

    I'm a Fighter 6/Mage 5 right now, knocking on Mage level 6 door. I'm trying to fill out my quest book (looking for a few rings in the Dangerous Alley for some Mages), before going through a portal near Mebbeth's house.

    Stats (with Tattoos):
    STR 9
    INT 14
    WIS 22
    DEX 9
    CON 9
    CHA 21
     
  17. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Remember that taking levels in thief will also gain you hp's (one per level).

    Con is overrated for early in the game -- very few things can kill you so you don't really need the hp's. Your wis and cha are great. Focus on int next (you need 18 or 19 to really boost Dak'kon).
     
  18. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    Con is rather underrated than overrated early in the game.
    You don't have many party members to hide behind, you don't have a healer, so if you your NO gets injured you either have to pay money you don't have for healing, take long walks to the few places where you are allowed to rest and back, die (so you only walk one way) or have him regenerate over time, faster regeneration does make a big difference.
    And you also have to consider how crucial the extra hitpoints can be for surviving a fight.
    Mental stats are rather overrated early in the game, there are very few situations where int or cha do matter at all early on if you have at least 16 wis and the few hundred XP yielded won't even even out the loss you get for defensive play with a wimp.
     
  19. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

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    I agree with CON being overrated actually. Yes, you need a lot of HP to survive a fight - but you don't need to survive fights all the time. Getting killed early on is a minor inconvenience, and with good strength and good use of Morte (and his abilities) my TNO takes little damage. I actually find dying a few times (though not repeatedly) to be good fun, as some of Morte's comments are very funny.
     
  20. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] what about if you're surrounded by enemies, and your party members are at risk of dying? then it's handy to get killed, to bail the team out...:lol:
    ;)in the early game, all you need to do, is find the midwife's hut. she'll heal your party endlessly for free. After the Alley of Lingering Sighs, it takes hours to travel between areas, then it's less useful.
     
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