I Just Don't Like Sorcerers

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I've tried and tried to play them, both as a PC and as an NPC, but I just can't bring myself to like them. Part of the problem is that I'm a one mage per party player, and I find their limited number of spell choices per level, well, rather limiting. (Yeah, I know, that was a master of the obvious type comment.)

For 90% of the game, having a choice of any five spells per level is fine, but then there's that other 10% of battles that it would be really nice to have spell X available, but since I didn't have a great need for it most of the game, I never took it.

The other problem I have is that sorcerers require a great deal of forethought, something I lack in abundance when I'm gaming. You have to consider WHEN you get your spell choices, and that dictates the order in which you pick them. For example, say you want Animate Dead as one of your 5th level spells. You'd never pick this as your first 5th level spell choice, because it doesn't get good until you're level 15. I guess part of the problem is I do not possess a table where I can see what spell chioces I have for each level up, but I doubt that would be of great help, simply because I repeatedly find that I don't have the spell I need and it's usually not because I forgot to take it, but because it's rare use made me take something else in favor of it.

 

Hmm. Stock up on scrolls for the spells you know you'll want to use in limited circumstances. When I did my sorcerer runs I preferred taking a part-mage along to cover the circumstantial spells... usually Aerie, since her clerical skills develop quickly anyway. However, if you stock up on all the scrolls you can, you should have enough for those "10%" instances.

I think the only spells that I ever felt I needed that my sorcerer didn't have were Limited Wish, and Freedom, though. There's an excellent guide to Sorcerer spell picks somewhere on SP, and that could definitely help you And surely there will be a few listed that you personally don't get along with, so you'll be able to switch in a couple of your preferred spells. And in general, if a cleric can cover a spell, leave it to the cleric (the only exception off the top of my head is Dispel Magic).

 

Heh, a single sorcerer cannot do everything, live with it

The good part is that sorcerers don't have to plan which spell to memory, how many copies of a certain spell, which I really really like

 

I rather like sorcerers myself. I rarely change my mages' memorized spells and normally don't use that many different spells at each level.

Also, I usually have a two mage party with Imoen as the second mage so I normally have her to cast the uncommonly used spells.

I guess that you could always bring along a couple of scroll cases with the scrolls for the rare use spells that you feel that you will need.

 

I don't think he's really asking for help as a Sorcerer. While you can carry scrolls or bring another mage (except he said he's a one-mage party), the Sorcerer will never have the spell selection of a mage. Obviously, while there are work-arounds, this is indisputable. The question to ask is if the versatility in which spells you can cast during the day and the sheer number of castings make up for the disadvantage or not. Personally, I believe the Sorcerer is superior, but I can't say I don't miss some spells every once in a while. A mage can make a nice change of pace, no doubt.

Honestly, I'd take a Wild Mage over a Sorcerer or Mage. Wild Surges are generally a good thing later on and Nahal's Reckless Dwenomer enables Sorcerer-like versatility and casting power while keeping mage-like spell selection. He's the best of both worlds. The only thing a Sorcerer really has up on him is the ability to get their spells earlier. For instance, if you are solo, a Wild Mage (or normal Mage) will likely have ninth level casting ability before you get Timestop since the earliest Timestop scroll that I know of is in the Underdark. But other than that, Wild Mage any day.

 

So long as you don't accidentally polymorph:self into a squirrel...

I really need to try a Wild Mage game sometime. It's one of the few classes I haven't truly experienced yet... *waits impatiently for his working ToB CD to arrive in the mail*

 

Yeah, that squirrel is nasty but then again dropping a cow on your opponents head can't really be beat.

Except maybe by area of effect Imprisonment, but that's another story.

 

Try a solo run-through with a sorcerer. I didn't understand what all the hype was about until I did. You don't notice how much more versatile they are when you've got a piddling little level 12 sorcerer in a party, but there are a *lot* of things sorcerers can do that mages can't.

 

A conjurer is much more fun, but the Sorcerer is a very tempting option for players, because it's powerful, a bit overpowered maybe. The Sorcerer class might not fit the one-mage per party attitude indeed. But if you choose your spells wisely, it's not actually so hard. And they're very powerful on high levels. Time Stop, Dragon's Breath, some Flame Arrows -- and the battleground is nothing more than ash.

Of course, forethought is something you definitely lack when playing BG2 Don't be kidding, Aldeth.
Well, I get what you mean. I think that you simply don't prefer Sorcerers so much that you would enjoy spending time to select spells. As someone who likes magic in these games (while giving serious criticism), I liked choosing spells for a Sorcerer.

...I liked choosing spells for a Sorcerer, because there is always some spell that will support the party greatly. Maybe not too fun because of the limits (and I played with a Sorcerer only after finishing the game with a Conjurer too), but the 5 useful spells weigh a lot in combat. Meanwhile, you can still choose Flame Arrow or Animate Dead, which will become devastating only after level 15. At least here you have still some useful spells at lower levels, unlike in BG1 -- where your mage was just a loser, but when he learnt Stinking Cloud, he could win a battle with the help of the Cleric's Animate Dead.
(I was not trying to convince you, just explained my viewpoint and arguments.)

 

Damn straight. The only time I've played a PC mage that wasn't a wild mage was because I dual classed him from something else. Frankly, there's no point in taking a specialist mage when wild mages have the same bonuses of one more spell per level, but don't have the restriction of losing a school of magic. NRD is a little scary to use early on, but yeah, at higher levels it's nice. I also agree that there are a lot more positive wild surges than negative ones, and hey, if you happen to area effect imprisonment the entire party, that's what the reload button is for.

 

Wild Mages sound cool, I was just allergic to Wild Magic zones in Watcher's Keep, somehow a character always said "Gold vanishes... wtf" (okay, without the wtf) and it didn't make 20000 or 30000 gp disappear: it usually took the 75-80% of the hundreds of thousands of gp I had. 98% players reload after such an annoyance.
The real reason why I don't prefer Wild Mages as much as the other types is because I like when things are determined and controllable by me.. and I like wizards the most, because they get their skills through studies. But a Sorcerer/Sorceress is also cool, having his/her ability in his/her veins!

 

Here's a good checklist for sorcerer spells, everything you ought to need to make the game a breeze.

I took emotion instead of polymorph self, switched the order of PFME and contingency and took ruby ray instead of finger of death (unneeded, wasn't using tactics or anything). Might also want to take glitterdust instead of acid arrow or something. At later levels there is no challenge, you just use PI and have it barf out all of your attack spells in the space of a round. Five dragon breaths, six skull traps and a few horrid wiltings for the win. I'll need to redo this with improved battles later.

Edit: sorry, should clarify, I meant Earl Grey's list in that thread.

 

I don't like Sorcerers because they're 3e (and crammed into an otherwise 2e game, no less). But wild mages rock! Playing PnP, the two specialties I ever chose were Transmuter and Wild Mage. After I got the Tome of Magic (the supplement that includes the wild mage specialty), I even went through the trouble to make my favorite character of all time (my Rakshasa bard) into something of a wild mage by grabbing every Wand of Wonder I could get my hands on. Eventually even my DM caved and let me have NRD and recharge one of the wands with them. I ended up with a Wand that worked on the Wild Surge table and it was the best wand ever! (The only one I ever bothered to name. )

 

I would take a Sorcerer over a Wizard any day. This is because I'm too lazy to try and find and scribe scrolls and I only ever use about 2 spells per level anyway. The only disadvantage for a Sorcerer under BG2 rules is the loss of XP from scribing, but as that is a silly way to get XP anyway, it's not that bad.

 

Sorcerers are very powerful if you do them right. They get so many spells/day, it is ridiculous and to tell you the makes me envious if I play something else.

On the downside, they can be very weak if you do it wrong. Definitely not for newbies. This is THE downside.

 

Well, that's basically my point. Even if you aren't a newbie, (and I certainly don't consider myself one) it's still a whole lot easier to screw up your sorcerer than to do it right. I still say you need a second mage if you're using a sorcerer. It doesn't necessarily have to be another dedicated mage, but someone like Jan or even Haer Dalis to fill in the blanks of some of the spells you don't have.

 

Tell you what, there are really a few ESSENTIAL spells to play a magic user MOST effectively. Other mid-priority spells can come in handy in a few times, but you can still finish the game without them. And sucky spells are better not mentioned, even mages just scribe it for little XP gain and then totally forget about them.

Plus there are plenty of guides for Sorc. spell picks. I think the MOST essential spells are, ROUGHLY:

1-Magic Missile, Pfrom Evil
2-Mirror Image
3-Flame arrow, Skull trap, Remove magic
4-Stoneskin, GMalison
5-Breach, Lower Resistance, Animate Dead
6-True Sight, Pfrom Magic weapons
7-Project Image, Mordy sword, Ruby Ray
8-ABDHW, Pierce Shield
9-Time Stop, Chain Contingency, plus good HLAs like IA, DB, Planetar.

^These spells are really essential for a powerful caster. All others are of mid and low priority. IMHO ofcourse.

 

You don't *need* anything other than a sorcerer. There's a lot of spells you think you need but actually don't (cloudkill is one of them). I was stockpiling scrolls I thought I might need for that one encounter in which they might actually prove useful, but surprise surprise, I never used any of them. One sorcerer can acquire every spell needed to beat the game with ease. Click the link in my previous post, go build yourself one and play it through. It's a fun challenge up to level 15 or so, and beyond that it's a total cakewalk.

 

Ice Storm is a spell I use a lot early on. But maybe it's just my particular style of playing that causes that. But I find it works well against several kinds of enemies. It's probably a spell I would have to work into a sorcerer.

I do dislike the gold disappearing thing though like you said. it eats a lot of it up. And there are times you won't even notice it's happened. They make up for it later on though. It's getting to that later on point that can be the real hassle with a wild mage.

 

In unmodded game PfMW is hardly needed, just stoneskin + mirror image are too much, while mislead is really nice when you haven't got the staff yet. The same goes to ruby ray, I'd take finger of death any day