HoF too easy?

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So I finished the game, ToTLM+HoW and the original game. What a grand adventure it was...I was sad it was over. But then I felt happy as there was HoF mode!

So I exported my characters and started a HoF game. We were pretty high level, my mage was lvl 17 IIRC, and we had the best equipment the game has to offer.

Problem is, game is too easy. I fear IWD's HoF does not enhance the monsters hard enough like it does in IWD2. In IWD2, those goblins were still scary after exporting high lvl characters, and it was reasonable challenge.

But not so in IWD. Sure goblins had more hP but they still could not hit our uber ACs, and my fighters easily ripped them to ribbons. They often fell easy preys to a Disintegrate or Finger of Death too.

I cleaned the orc cave with so little trouble. Killed all those super tough multiple ogres too! (symbol of hopelessness, and pound with ABDHWs and Suffocate spells, use ranged weaponry and they are toasted.)

So I edited my characters, and stripped them of their uber cool inventory. Each was allowed to have only one magical item, however. I hope this can make my game harder.

My question is, isn't HoF supposed to be a tough challenge for parties who have finished the normal game? What bonuses the monsters have? Those goblins still sucked, they could not hit anything, while goblins in IWD2 were monsters with +20 to hit IIRC.

Or is it only the beginning? Will the game be really tough in the future, so that I will regret stripping my party of their magical goods? But I hope to keep the excitement to refind them as we advance. IWD's HoF mod does not have 'enhanced HoF only items' like IWD2? This sucks.

What do you say?

 

Make HoF with new a new party!

 

^I have tried it, actually. And was able to beat orc caves. It was hard. Really really hard. My diviner's chromatic orb was the winner when he finally hit lvl 5, stunning effect made those ogres a joke.

But, seriously, can't a party exported from normal game have a serious challenge in HoF?

 

The game doesn't get any harder to be honest. If you export then it will be too easy, at least in my experience.

Playing with a new party is far more fun- the game does get easier after the orc caves as you gain the ability to summon. The key to winning with a new party in HoF is to summon a lot as the summons are boosted too.

 

HoF mode is a part of the HoW expansion.
You might be supposed to play it with a party which has beaten the game before. But you're not supposed to have

- the XP and items and spell scrolls from TotL. HoF mode is older than TotL.
- the XP and items and spell scrolls from Auril's Bane.
Even a pure mage shouldn't have enough XP to cast ADHW at the HoW start.
- characters with uber-stats and max HP. You should be able to beat HoF mode with realistic stats, the pregenerated characters don't have many 18s in their stats for example.

HoF mode will become more challenging later, but if you install some mods to make the game easier like the level 40 rules you take away a lot from the challenge.

 

Hmm, I do not have Auril's Bane installed right now, so don't worry about that. ToTLM did indeed add a good amount of XP to my party, but what can I do? I did not use max HP per level rule, really, my mage has something like 39 HP. A maniac enemy mage had killed him way too easily with a powerword:kill spell in HoW. Sigh. Luckily the temple was nearby.

So, should I start a new party in HoF? Is it doable? I haev done it before but it was way too hard and frustrating, it took me more than one hour to deal with orc cave but I guess it was...fun. When my party was not slaughtered, that is.

But now this HoF mode sucks hard. You know what I discovered? I summon two elementals with my mages, and they can easily destroy the hordes of goblins/orcs whatever as they are immune to normal weapons. Lame.

I just would like to have enemies a little more bonus to their attack rolls, for instance:they miss way too much fo HoF mod. Ofcourse, these are only lowly goblins. Hmm...

 

Yes and yes. If you are finding the game to be so easy as to bore you, then there is little point in doing it. It is possible to complete HoF with a level 1 party.

As I said, once you gain summons, the game gets a lot more managable. You just need to take things very slowly and carefully at first. I would advise that you multi-class your group's mage(s). Even multi-classed, my two characters with mage levels had empty spell slots as they gained higher level spells so quickly. Missile weapons (take lots of ammo), summons and Haste should allow you to clear the Vale; summons should get you to that part of the game. So long as you don't give up during the first few levels, you should do just fine.

 

It's too hard for you because you needed more than 1 hour to complete a big area filled with many monster groups ?
Some players needed probably more than 1 hour for this big cave in normal mode.

HoF mode is doable with a fresh party, it's even doable with a single newly created character.
The start is a bit hard since HoF isn't designed for unequipped level 1 characters, but once you reach Kuldahar the game gets easier.

 

I played all the all the way through the game on normal and then played allt eh way through again using HoF with only two characters from the original party. I had fun playing all the way through HoF with just a cleric\ranger and my mage\thief. That was actually very fun

 

OK, I started a new party in HoF.

A human mage, a HE F/T, a paladin, a ranger, a halfling cleric, and a HE bard. Pretty avarage and low stats, took the first roll in most classes.

It was suprisingly easy this time.

Mage kept charming orcs, bard stunned ogres with lvl 5 Chromatic orb, cleric animated the dead for fodder, we were able to beat the orc-caves in half-hour, with a few reloads and running strategy. I must admit it was fun! I will continue playing, I guess. Wish me luck!

 

I'm personally not in favour of pure mages in HoF as you're gonna be very low on appropriate spell scrolls- especially as Kuldahar's resident mage is a bit slow at stocking high enough level scrolls.

But, regardless, good luck!

Tis good you are enjoying it.

 

Ah you are so right about pure mages. It will be hard to get good spells.

But I can go to HoW portion quickly, right? There are good spell scrolls there for the right price. Only, what level should my party roughly be to survive HoW at HoF difficulty? Scary!

 

You can start the HoW part as soon you have the required level 9.
You'll get along with invisibility spells unless you start for the final in the Sea of Moving Ice.

But the normal game might get too easy for you with all those HoW items ...

 

Hitting lvl 9 is very easy in HoF, I just beat orc caves and my party lvl is 5-6. No problem in levelling up so far.

But I do not think my lvl 9 party can survive all those wailing virgins and the borrow wights and all other scary stuff in HoW's HoF difficulty:I beat HoW with lvl 9 party but it was on normal and core difficulty.

Three White Doves work wonders against them, even in HoF, right? Only, how am I supposed to raise so high funds to buy the cool stuff AND most needed mage scrolls? I really do not know.

 

The barrow wights won't hurt you if they can't see you.
You just have to cast invisibility on your party after entering Burial Isle, have your party sneak to the cave exit leading to Hjolder, have your protected mage sneak to the coffin, steal the proof and cast invisibility again fast and leave with the other party members.
After you have shown the proof to Hjolder you can go back to Kuldahar again.

If you need money you can use the invisibility trick to plunder the other treasures on Burial Isle.
You can pickpocket three rings of free action from Purvis before you have Hjolder send your party home from Burial Isle, the first at the start of HoW, the second after returning from the barbarian camp, the third after having talked to Hjolder on Burial Isle the first time. Afterwards you can even solve the murder quest before showing the proof to Hjolder.

You can even stay in HoW until you get the chance to leave for the Sea of Moving Ice.
Even the mercenary party isn't that difficult and you'll gain very valuable loot for defeating them.

[ September 26, 2006, 22:24: Message edited by: kmonster ]

 

Heart of Fury mode too easy?

I started a new party in an HoF game. At first it was really painful (needing a 20 to hit the first set of goblins in Easthaven meant a lot of patient running around in circles).

Then it was fairly painful (about 50 raids on the orc caves to get through them).

Then it was almost fun (Forgotten Temple only took about 10 visits).

By the end of level 1 on Dragon's Eye, it was actually getting fun. Making the investment in a bunch of spells from Orrick helped a lot. Fights were challenging but at least they could be managed.

Now I'm up against Yxonumei, and I've been chopped to pieces in short order three times now. I'm not sure if it's fun or not, but I'm not giving up yet!

Any tips on this battle from the pros? You can't run since the main exit door gets unpickably locked, and the other doors available open back up immediately when you close them. It's hard to set up a front since three yuan-ti mages appear behind you after the conversation with Yxonumei. I've been moderately successful at holding off the minions for a while using summons, stinking cloud, slow, and confusion, but I can't seem to kill the mages fast enough to make this useful.

[ January 30, 2007, 04:47: Message edited by: Otis ]

 

Concentrate on the mages as soon as they appear and kill them as fast as possible.
Yxomei and her friends can be kept away with multiple webs and entangles.
Just have one with free action talk to her and retreat while they are stuck in the webs.
After the mages are gone you should have an easy time finishing off the still webbed with are effect spells like spike growth or pure force.

If the battle is too hard you can start HoW or go XP farming as last resort, but this isn't neccessary.

Btw, how is your party composed and which levels have they reached now ?

 

Well, I said 'playing HoF with a party who has just finished the normal game' was easy. I agree playing HoF with a level 1 party is hard and actually, fun!

I haven't been home for ages though, I will go home next weekend and play BG2, IWD and IWD2 nonstop for one week period! I will tell you how I fare in HoF then. Things do not look like very grim right now, as I had a relatively easy time clearing orc caves. I am actually thinking about the RP aspects and personalities of my party members right now. It is fun!

BTW, Otis, if you manage to beat the Serpent Queen, do tell us how you do it. I am curious. What lvl are your party? What are you trying? Do you intnd to go HoW areas soon? When? How? Tell us, man!

 

Well, I think part of my problem is that the party is not really designed for success. The fact that the save game is titled "Six Hopeless Clowns" should tell you all you need to know.

There's: a paladin, a ranger, a thief, a fighter/mage, a figher/cleric, and a diviner. They all have about 900,000 experience points by now, so level 9-11 for the multi-classers and level 12 or so for the others.

I was kind of playing it in paper-and-pencil strict emulation mode, so just taking whatever rolls came my way for stats, hit points, spell copying, etc. (Is it just me, or do about half of the hit point rolls result in a 1??) Needless to say, it's not the most powerful party out there (I think max unaided strength is 16 and only the thief has a 19 dex).

At this point, I'm thinking taking on Yxonumei is actually impossible. I haven't seemed to be able to hurt her at all except for a few magic missiles that made it through her resistance. I'm not sure I even have any weapons that can hurt her: several +2 but no +3 items. The "stacking pluses for bow and arrows" thing doesn't seem to be working for me (Messenger of Seth and +2 arrows = weapon ineffective), and even spiritual hammers/conlan's hammer don't seem to do anything (at least one line in the last battle, from the fighter/cleric, said she missed on a roll of 19, so it may just be that I need a 20).

Couple that with the fact that the paladin, even with AC cranked down to -12 lasts an average of about 25 seconds in a toe-to-toe with Yxonumei, and you can see why I'm starting to think about heading off to the HoW sections.

I did not successfully copy the web spell. I guess I could get the ranger to learn entangle, though.

[ January 30, 2007, 04:48: Message edited by: Otis ]

 

In your situation a druid would be godsent to turn the desperate battle into something far easier.
Did you mod your game ? I remember being able to hurt her with the throwing axe +2.
Toe-to-toe battle against HoF bosses isn't a good idea, if you manage to get rid of her minions you could shoot her with the throwing axe +2 while the party member she is targeting is running around in circles for hours.(unless your Yxonomei isn't immune of course).
You could even try to outrun her and rest in the nortern room to face only her with a refreshed party and refreshed spells afterwards.
Another possibility is to cast chromatic orbs at her and hope that she fails a save. It works against Behilfet and the Luremaster, so it might also work against her if you are lucky.

It's surely possible to to beat Yxonomei with your party now, but startig the expansion is the easier choice. If your diviner has scribed the invisibility scroll from the SE tomb in the VoS, Burial Isle shouldn't be a problem.
When you return after defeating the mercenary party you shouldn't have much trouble with Yxonomei any more.

Your party is a welcome change from the standard powergaming parties, it's a real challenge (but not impossible) to beat HoF mode with them. Most players wouldn't even dare to play a normal game with your restrictions.

It would be interesting to know your party members' races, stats and HP if you don't mind introducing them to us.
Such an heroic party has to be put into the spotlights for the world to admire them !