Hanging

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Yesterday (I think) Singapore hung Nguyen Tuong Van, a 25 year old Australian drug trafficker. He was caught attempting to smuggle 400 grammes of heroin to Australia. 400 grammes, that is less than a pound. You get more in a bag of sweets. Quite obviously a small time (and probably first time) trafficker, he paid by having his neck snapped by the hangman's noose.

The full story is here.
Hanging in Singapore

I understand this has caused qutie a stir in Australia. What are your thoughts?

 

To me it's just the hypocrisy (I had to check that word in my dictionary, ha) of the system. I don't know how's the situation in Singapore, but it seems the goverment doesn't like outsiders messing in their affairs, heh. To state that this kind of punishment is an "effective deterrent" is a fallacy, a bad excuse to make them look strong. The death penalty is so middle ages...

 

It's quite absurd, out of proportion. And I'm against death penalty, anyway. At least he didn't have 10-20 years of deathrow before finally being executed.

 

It is quite absurd, chev. I don't understand how 14 ounces can be justification for killing him. Maybe if he had been caught numerous times with 14 tons of it, perhaps they could argue that he deserves death, although, IMO, no humans deserves death because of drugs.

Plus, hanging is an awful way to go. Couldn't they have at least done something painless? Of course, that doesn't enforce the law as well as a public hanging, but, still, they should treat a human as, well, a human.

 

The drugs and drug trade reality is probably harsher in Asia than in Europe, the less affected parts of the US, Australia, New Zealand etc. We don't know if it really works as a deterrent or not in those societies or what effects it brings in the battle against drugs. But still... killing people for attempted smuggle of 14 ounces of heroin?

 

We are talking about Singapore here, folks. Last I checked, it was illegal to chew gum in Singapore. Seriously.

 

He was smuggling heroin. Pure, uncut, heroin.

He knew the risks. He got what he deserved.

 

/me claps

 

You think a man should swing by his neck, pissing down his legs whilst he slowly dies, then choking on his own blood as the pressure crushes his throat... because he tried to traffic a handful of crack? A bit harsh don't you think?

Hanging isn't just death, it's a torture.

 

14 ounces is not enough for torture. He would have gotten what he deserved if he had been smuggling huge amounts of it.

 

If you want to dispute the ridiculousness of the law, go become a citizen of Singapore and vote to change it. But the rightness of this particular case is indisputable, IMO. Like T2 said, he knew the risks. And I say he gambled with his life on a measly gain and lost; stupid and unfortunate, but he's got noone but himself to blame for it. So if you want to point a finger for the suffering of his family, it should be squarely pointed at the man in the noose.

Honestly, of all the places he could have smuggled drugs, he picked the one with the harshest penalty?

Not if you do it right. You don't hang people by putting them on a chair and kicking it out under them, with a rope that won't let them fall from their previous position. You get them up on a high scaffold and drop them through a trap door with plenty of rope; most of the time it's over as quick as you can snap a pencil.

 

And ODing on heroine is a walk in the park then, eh boys? Felinoid has a point. If you do hang someone properly, their neck snaps and there is no pain.

 

They had every right to hang him here, and I personally disagree with what the Australian government has said about the case. As an Aminesty International worker said on the news a few days back, why haven't they complained about the hundreds of other death penalties in Singapour if they're so much against it? Or American death penalties for that matter?

Like Felinoid said, he knew the risk when he went in there. It was a gamble and he lost out. If you break a law in a foreign country you should bloody well undergo the punishment their legal system places on you. This case was clear cut, from what I've heard, with no doubt whether or not he was guilty. He should hang as per their law.


Regarding the death penalty itself, I am completely against it. What right do humans have to decide who lives and dies? And isn't murdering a murderer murder, even if the law gives you permission?

But until the law is changed, someone committing the crime should undergo that penalty. Atleast if they're an Australian

 

What T2 said.

 

Ok, zero tolerance crew. Imagine it's you, lying in your cell on your last night, knowing the next day you're going to die. You can't even appease yourself with the thought of it being swift and painless, because it might not be. Your neck might not break. And as you stand there, waiting for the noose, will you conduct yourself bravely or will your last few moments be total humiliation and degredation? Will you be quiet and contained, or will you scream, cry, sh1t yourself? You'll certainly piss and sh1t yourself when hanging from the rope, so the idea of going with dignity is pretty much out anyway.

It's repulsive. I'm not sure there's any crime deserving of such a thing - but certainly not drug trafficking. Certainly not such a small insignificant amount. It's completely barbaric and I'd be interested to know if such a torture is against human rights...

 

I'm with Barmy Army, geting killed for traficing 14 bloody ounces of herion? when if he had made it to australia before he got caught he would have got a fine and some prison time.

If there's one good thing the Australian goverment has done it's abolishing the death penalty.

 

"Just" 14 ounces? Wholesale prices for one kilogram (35.2 ounces or so) of heroin ranged from $50,000-250,000 in 2001.

Yes, it would rather suck. Being Tim McVeigh the night before his execution would have sucked, too. What's your point? Yes, it's repulsive. Rotting away in prison for fifty years is repulsive as well.

Smuggling pot is one thing--being executed for that would be absurd. Smuggling heroin is quite another, and quite deserving of the punishment. It isn't as though he didn't know the risks going in, either. He decided making money selling heroin was worth the risk of death. He made a gamble and lost. Tough.

 

Well I'm against death penalty in general and find the punishment to be more than a little bit too harsh, but on the other hand it's Singapore and it's quite well known that the penal system there is very harsh so it was not really something unexpected.

 

@Barmy, et. al. - Does it matter if I die with or without dignity? Act like a whiny sh*t and beg for my life when there's no chance of a reprieve? No. I'm woman enough to deal with the consequences of my actions. If I get busted for knowingly holding drugs, I deserve what I get. I made the choice.

 

1. I wouldn't be in that situation because drugs are repulsive. I certainly hope nobody else on this board is trafficking either.
2. You're damn straight I would face it bravely; I've been prepared for death since I was 15. Being a clinically depressed kid with suicidal ideology for 20 years makes death rather blase.

14 (ounces) might be a nice small number that you can trivialize, but 400 (grams) sure as hell isn't. Also keep in mind that it's very nearly a full pound of heroin. Imagine snorting three-and-a-half quarter pounders ("royales" for our British McD's customers) up your nose, and you get a better idea of just how much this guy was smuggling.

Any further questions can be answered by Rotku's post; he's clearly got it straight. The death penalty may be a bit extreme for this, but it was the law and he knew it.