Good manners on the increase after France riots?

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Here's from the article:

Looks like a good trend. I'm pretty fed up with people who won't let a polite greeting out of their throat and who don't seem to know such phrases as "please", "thank you" or "I'm sorry". Some people may consider that a masquerade, but in my view, it's essential to keep at least some polite forms if not a degree of genuine kindness.

Sarkozy said some thugs behaved as if they owned the neighbourhood and he was right. Thing is, even people who own the place treat their visitors or workers better if they have any sense of manners, because not even ownership of the place gives the right to treat people badly.

Good. Here, students stand up when the teacher arrives. Those who specifically demand it are ridiculed behind their back, but it's still a natural reflex. Besides, for decency's sake, you get up from your sitting place when someone enters the room and says hello, no matter if it's a teacher or not.

BBC forgot to mention sexual molestation of young women by gangsters.

In my view, much of the youth violence problem starts with allowance for poor manners. If concessions are made so that they don't have to call people monsieur or madam, ask and thank for things and excuse themselves when there's a need, they want more and more and the whole thing grows in them.

The commonplace glorification of the bad boy attitude is not without fault, either. Violence is not cool, people should finally come to understand. Neither is talking like a criminal or caveman and insulting people at every step. I'm against forcing people to socialise and be good and active members of their community, but active rebels should be cracked down on whenever they pop up.

Too bad that's on decline. I'm not a fan of calling parents sir and madam but some kinds of behaviour are inacceptable. Others simply make room for bad habits and grow into more serious problems. The most immediate and easily apparent result is a total lack of discipline and a huge willpower deficiency.

The link is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4596390.stm

 

I agree with your general points chev. There is absolutely no reason in your general interactions in society, to not show basic manners when dealing with anyone, regardless if these people are your co-workers or just someone you by chance meet. One thing that I found strange was your comment that it is commonplace for students to stand when a teacher enters a classroom. I have never witnessed this in any of my educational experiences. Granted I went to a public school, so maybe it is more commonplace in private schools, but we never stood for the teacher when he/she walked in regardless of whether it was elementary, high school, or university. It was expected that you immediately stop talking a pay attention as soon as the teacher walked in, but standing was not a requirement.

 

It's partly a respect for teacher thing, partly general manners. Etiquette has been relaxing recently, so most people don't stand up when someone enters the room and hellos are exchanged. Traditionally, the one who enters says hello first, even if it's a lady or boss or parent, the other one gets up to greet him/her. A teacher won't likely stand up to greet a student but he will if it's the student's parent. It isn't really required but it's a sign of good manners. It's only bad manners when a guy doesn't rise when a woman comes into the room, but most people don't mind, especially if there's an immediate invitation to sit down. In Poland, a polite man stands up when being talked to by a standing woman unless she immediately sits down. You generally should lift your butt at least for the moment of saying hello, anyway.

 

Well, we always stand when we initially greet someone, but that's because it's customary to shake hands, and you just don't do that sitting down. For a teacher, he/she obviously isn't going to go around and shake everyone's hand in the room, so everyone remains seated.

 

In informal gatherings, that wouldn't be required. I mean, it's not like a whole room of people stands up to greet a single newcomer or anything, but yeah, it's a pretty nice quaint custom to stand up while greeting someone. Sometimes even a woman would stand up to greet a man but that would be some uberpoliteness.

So long as people remain kind and good-willing, I don't think formalities matter so much. But when it comes to skipping the messieurs and mesdames, not saying hello and other such, I think that's pretty extreme and totally out of place.

 

Well, personally I think it's all a bit silly

The first quote - fine (unnecessary to the general working of society, but fine anyway). The second - sure, it helps to show respect/listen to teachers (well, to those who deserve it. Sometimes it just isn't worth doing).

However - you're saying about students standing up - that's ridiculous. I would say it's better to be familiar with teachers rather than such over-the-top formality. It's something that would seriously grate on my nerves, especially if I had no respect for the teacher involved. Show respect to those who deserve it - I say, and not with silly little ceremonies like that

About the violence - you say that formality and manners prevents it...? Your article is contradicting you there - I'd expect less violence in France then.
So I'd like to suggest that this violence is a reaction against stiffling formality. Furthermore - maybe such formality hinders empathy with the people you're supposed to be respecting. How can you empathise with people who are steps above you in the food chain?

IMO: Give respect to those who are deserving of it - who *you* decide is deserving of it. That's not to mean be rude to anyone else, but it's silly to bow down (or stand up, in the case of your school...) to them merely because it's what's expected of you

 

This topic is not without difficulties. On the one hand I agree with Aikanaro, because doing things because of others' expectations often makes me feel a bit awkward, that's right.

On the other hand think of it like this: salutations have been invented mainly to save you from having to think too deeply about anyone you meet every time you meet him. Do I respect him? Do I want him to respect me? Will a short "hello" do? Is a "good morning" in order? What a waste of time.

I know that I'm an individual, I don't have to prove my individuality to myself by placing me outside the conventional flow in absolutely harmless matters. Hence I'm greeting. If the vogue in my country is to stand up, well, I will stand up. If ceremony demands elbows being banged together, then I will bang my lovely elbows together.

Moreover, with the right (or rather wrong) friends it is even possible to end up in a situation where you don't greet people just because it's what's expected of you.

I think the connection between "respect" and "greeting" is over-emphasised anyway. You just do it. It is a greeting, not a declaration.

Familiarity with teachers may or may not be a good thing. After all, it still is a professional relation between teachers and students. I think that it depends on the teacher: if he can stand the pressure of being close to his students while still maintaining the necessary objectivity for giving them marks, well, let him have it his way.

If he wants to maintain a formal code because he feels it is important to draw a line between being a friend and being a teacher, then let's have him his way. It is a matter of no great importance anyway.

 

I was sort of under the impression that racial tensions and inequality were a big part of the riots.