France in flames

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AULNAY-SOUS-BOIS, France (Reuters) - Roving gangs of youths launched hit-and-run arson attacks in the ninth straight night of violence in poor Paris suburbs, as copycat unrest in major towns complicated the government's search for a response.

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who has struggled to halt cabinet squabbles, restore order and defuse tensions, summoned eight key ministers to his offices on Saturday to formulate a political response.

Rioters burned almost 900 vehicles in the Paris region and large provincial cities like Bordeaux, Pau, Strasbourg, Rennes, Toulouse and Lille, the highest total since the deaths of two youths while apparently fleeing police sparked the disturbances.

Initially seen as a reaction by youths of mainly North African and black African origin angry over racism, unemployment and being marginalised within French society, local residents have begun to tire of the nightly violence.

In Aulnay-sous-Bois, a rundown suburb of 80,000 inhabitants northeast of Paris, several thousand residents marched past burned out vehicles and a community center behind a banner reading "No To Violence, Yes To Dialogue".

"It's a sign that the laws of the republic apply to everyone and that we will not give in to violence," said mayor Gerard Gaudron, a member of the governing UMP party.

Overnight, police arrested 203 suspects and drafted in a helicopter in the Paris region to film events. While fewer clashes with youths were reported, judicial officials said the unrest was being organized via the Internet and mobile phones.

"Without question what is taking place bears all the hallmarks of being coordinated," Yves Bot, the Paris public prosecutor, told Europe 1 radio.

"The way things are organized is in response to a strategy ... with mobile tactics employed by youths, who turn up on scooters, throw a lighted bottle at a vehicle and then leave."

"IT'S A GAME"

In Meaux, a town east of Paris whose mayor is government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope, youths threw Molotov cocktails at paramedics, whose patient was taken to hospital under police escort.

As France sought to understand why the nation's poor suburbs were in turmoil, a cafe owner in Aulnay-sous-Bois, had a simple explanation: "It's a game. The kids are out there because all they want to do is trash stuff."

Insurance companies quoted by French media put at 7 million euros the cost of more than a week of rioting that forced Villepin to cancel a trip to Canada.

Villepin has sought to cool passions, vowing to restore order but seeking dialogue. Late on Friday he met residents from troubled neighborhoods and plans to publish an action plan targeting 750 tough districts by the end of the month.

"There needs to be better communication between the state, the police and youth, because they feel they are undervalued, that they are third- or fourth-rate French people, not even second-rate, because they really live in conditions worthy of a developing country," said one woman who attended the meeting.

The drawn-out disturbances could yet hurt the political fortunes both of Villepin, down in polls taken before the riots, and his rival for 2007 presidential elections, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.

Opponents say Sarkozy, leader of the ruling UMP party, fueled the unrest by calling rioters "scum".

While he took a less strident tone on Friday, saying the disturbances also stemmed from 30 years of failed policies, Communist and Green party officials called for him to resign, while local residents said he should apologize.

"We are all against what's happening here," said one North African resident of Aulnay-sous-Bois. "There's nothing for youths to do here. Sarkozy lit the fuse and has not said he's sorry."


Personally i don't see why the minister should say sorry, for calling them scum ? What else can you call guys who torch a disabled woman, torch 2000 cars in less than a week, set entire neighbourhoods on fire, and blame it all on being poor ? What were they expecting when they left their homeland ? A luxurous appartment at the Riviera ?

 

IMO anybody who acts like that, no matter if he is poor emigrant or rich native, should be dealt with all possible means.
The death of those 2 kids was only excuse to start an open fight.
Although theire material status is a problem but as Pac mas posted, what have they expected? That they'll get social help and yet they can do no work and pay no taxes? The goverment should provide them with help to find a job not just give them money to keep them silent.
And nothing explains such violence. Nothing.

 

Yesterday I saw an interview with Elmar Theveßen, one of our terror experts, on the developements in France. Aside from worriesome observations of how islamic fundamentalists may profit of the poor situation those immigrants live in, he mentioned riots (of a much smaller scale) in the Netherlands. Is that true, Pac man? I can find nothing on the net and wonder if I have misheard.

 

I have heard nothing of that so far. If it were true then i would probably know by now, because the city i live in households vast numbers of north African immigrants, and the only disturbance you can hear occasionally comes from kids playing with fireworks.

 

Nope, no disturbances in the Netherlands yet afaik.
But I heard about the situation in France that it has a lot the do with the way the police behaves themselves over there. They seem to be really annoying, arresting people at random(well, the immigrant youth that is) and having them stay in the police-office cell (whatever it's called) for a long time, while humiliating them and such. Seems like that set quite a lot of bad blood, the scum declared the really hate the police.
Still these riots are not to be justified in any way, the scum really should start behaving themselves very soon, or France will set the army on them... now that will be a nice solution, wouldn't ya think?

 

If the North Africans in France behave themselves in the same fashion as ours do, then there's a perfectly good reason why the police would treat them that way. It's not that they're the easiest of people to deal with.

 

My opinion about multiculturalism has always been very clear.
The French brought that upon themselves. I can't fell sorry for them.

 

Stereotype much?

 

Yeah, there's always people who will bring up the stereo type issue, but those are usually the ones that don't see what i'm talking about on a daily basis, so i won't bother commenting on that any further.

 

Part of the problem with such incidents is that when the law shows, or appears to show a lack of respect for on particular group, that group will have less respect for the law, and if this gets to the extreme, then all hell breaks loose. If there was misconduct, then punish the guilty, but the rioters too must be held accountable. They should get their victory, but because of what they are doing, it will be somewhat pyric (I know I botched the spelling, but I hope that you get the word I mean...)

 

More news..

PARIS (Reuters) - Gangs of youths torched more than 1,000 vehicles overnight in the tenth straight night of violence in Paris's poor suburbs, despite the deployment of thousands of extra police.

In the past few days the rioting has been spreading to other French towns. On Saturday night, cars were burned out for the first time in central Paris, in the historic third district. And in the normally quiet Normandy town of Evreux, a shopping mall, 50 vehicles, a post office and two schools were gutted.

The violence began after the deaths of two men apparently fleeing police, and as the expression of pent up anger by young men, many Muslims of North and black African origin, at police treatment, racism, unemployment and their marginal place in French society.

Authorities have increasingly blamed the rolling nightly riots on organized crime gangs. But despite consultations with community leaders, young people and local officials, Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin has failed to offer a clear path out of the crisis.

The total of vehicles torched around France on Saturday night and Sunday morning was the highest so far, at 1,295 vehicles, the Interior Ministry said. There were no reports of serious injury.

A spokesman said the violence around Paris appeared to have hit a ceiling, but the rioting continued to spread elsewhere.

An extra 2,300 police have been drafted in. Seven police helicopters buzzed over the Paris region through the night, filming disturbances and directing mobile squads to incidents.

Police arrested 193 people. The spokesman said the rioters were avoiding direct clashes with police. "There is some harassment of police, but not direct confrontation," he said.

Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, accused of stoking passions by calling troublemakers "scum", has ignored calls to resign or apologize.

After a crisis cabinet meeting on Saturday, he said: "We are trying to be firm and avoid any provocation."

Villepin, who like Sarkozy has ambitions to be the right wing's presidential candidate in 2007, is to publish an action plan for 750 tough neighborhoods by the end of the month

With no end in view of the nights of wailing sirens, acrid smoke, stone-throwing and destruction, residents from all ethnic backgrounds are tiring of the unrest.

On Saturday, several thousand residents in Aulnay-sous-Bois, a rundown suburb northeast of Paris, marched past burned out vehicles behind a banner reading "No To Violence, Yes To Dialogue".

Source

 

Hope the government does what it is meant to do and put an end to it ASAP. 2,000 x 20,000 € means that several people, who have had nothing to do with this, have lost a lot of money due of the slow response of the government. Also, if the rioters are so organized, why they haven't marched to the parlament and demanded rights, stat? (Or overthrown the weak government?) Instead, they break havoc like common criminals and just wait for the police to throw them to jail for 5+ years.

The pressure won't help if it isn't shoved to the face of the politicians themselves.

[ November 06, 2005, 16:42: Message edited by: Wirhe ]

 

Poverty and alienation, such wondrous things.

 

From what I understand of my cousin's rant, the french interior minister's comments prior to the electrocuted kids incident had already raised tempers sky high. That incident just acted as a spark to ignite the city.
It is unclear when exactly the racaille (scum) comment was made or in what context.
Regardless, his statments from before the riots have my cousin (who lives in the hauts-de-seine suburb of paris) wondering how the hell that particular idiot managed to get elected.

 

Exactly what was he supposed to call them then ? A group of jolly teenagers who are just blowing off some steam ?

 

What part of:

,do you not get? The comments were apparently made before this entire mess and had already led to a feeling of unrest.

It is well known that France has been for a long time now facing an economic disaster. Jobs are scarce and these people from the poorer districts face a double hurdle of black skin. Then there is the totally idiotic and steamroll manner of dealing with race and identity that France persues. The idiot apparently was quite bursque when asked about these matters. This had nothing to do with the riots.

Next time take your time to actually read the post Pac man.

 

Do you actually believe these teenagers were all good respectful citizens before that minister even opened his mouth ?

 

Some people go on a rampage, do some burning and shooting... and anyone but those people can be blamed for it? They had no other choice than laying waste to the streets, I presume. Like organizing a protest march to bring attention to the circumstances they live in.

Then again perhaps they did not want attention of that kind, but just to let out their hatred? For that there is no excuse.

They havent done themselves a favor there. It will make things worse.

Btw, this is the future. We will see more of it happen - get used to it.

 

While I support organized protests, sending petitions etc (if they have a point), I am strongly agains open revolt (and this is how can call what happens in France). And yes, all those people can (or even should) be blames for all this destrucion they have caused. There is no justification to that and no matter who's fault is this, violence is never a solution (and ofter violence causes serious consequences) in such matters. It will only cause people to hate imigrants and make laws against imigration harder. They will give green light to "deal" with this problem with any necessery means.