France and other Anti-War Activists

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This is basically just a space for my mini-rant, as I'm not sure what topic to inject it into. I am really tired of hearing people bash France for opposing the US. As can be seen on these boards, there are plenty of people out there who have sound, well-reasoned arguments for being against the war in Iraq. The same is also true for France; in fact, I think they are brave for being willing to take the forefront of the anti-war movement, thus risking much for opposing the US. At the risk of making myself unpopular, I would suggest that maybe all this name-calling and insults are because France's rhetoric (which I have heard quite a bit of, and am impressed by, although I do not necessarily agree) is more powerful, and the bashers are using emotions to stir up US support because they can't handle the logical end.

This does not mean I am against the Iraq war. I think Bush should slow down, but in principle I support removing Saddam Hussein. I just dislike it when debate degenerates to abuse because one side cannot be civil to the other. This would also apply to France's insults of the East European countries who support the US.

To paraphrase my mother, if you can't say something nice and well-reasoned, then just shut up.

 

The worst part is that the debate has degrading to namecalling and insults even on the very highest level. That is incredible dangerous. To hear Chiraq and Schröder call names at Rumsfeld and Bush and them shouting back is horrible. It wont be good for the future.

 

France (the French people, in general) are just completely burned out on War. God, they've been stomped so many times, and had conflicts that were just passing through, they've just gotten tired of it.

Someone photoshopped a google search one time; it had "results found for "French Victories: none", and "Are you sure you didn't mean "French Defeats?". I thought it was relevant.

But. Then, that's also the point. Get to it, before it gets to you. Personally, I'd rather let it get to them, and have them yelling for us to help them out. Not vice versa.

But then. That's also why I'm not president...

 

And, amazingly unknown, france stood steadfast with the US in other conflicts: they provided close air support for US special forces in Afganistan. Quite remarkable since they were deploying the only coalition aircraft (not even the british were) tasked with that (and probably able to).

Also france is keeping the US and british backs free in africa, where the british cannot intervene as it would overstretch its forces busy in the gulf region and also relieving the US who are also focussed on the gulf (even their assets are finite). The continued cooperation however, is completely overlooked when the people are blaming france to block and interfere.

 

Please add the war of American Independence to your list, Ragusa. Not many people seem to know which side France fought on there or that France was involved at all. Well, I bet they know in Lafayette, Louisiana. Any excuse to annoy the Brits or les Boches. And hey- a French statue is the American great symbol of freedom! You have to love that.

You're welcome.

 

Well, i for one think that France is opposing the war so badly, for their own questionable reasons. I think they are afraid, that after an invasion, the world is going to find out, what role France REALLY played in arming Iraq since 1991. They totally ignored the embargo against Iraq, and we're about to find out, just how smelly their business was. Just my 2 cents.

 

LOL Yeah, i never understood why they called it that. It's a well known fact that fries originate from Belgium. Now they do speak French in large parts of Belgium, but it definitely is a completely different country.

So who made "French fries" up anyway ?

 

Idiots in Washington? You're referring to the individual store owners, right? I haven't heard anything being done like that at the legislature, which is the implication one might read into that post.

 

In cooking, "frenching" a vegetable means to cut it into long strips, thicker than a julienne. For example, a frenched onion is one that has been sliced longitudinally (root-to-stem) instead of latitudinally (into rings).

Cooking 101 dismissed for today, but before we go let me say that I don't care what they're called, as long as I get some while they're still hot.

 

I, too think the whole renaming deal is silly. I'm not fond of current French policy, but renaming a food item is hardly likely to make any difference.

I've also heard this particular dish called "Shoestring Potatoes"

 

LMAO! Anyhow, the French can oppose it all they want. Go the French!

 

Aha! See I always knew our fries would become legendary!

It's ridiculous the way the US government makes such efforts to ban everything French.

 

Oops, I didn't see that this topic went to the Freedom Fries direction. Started a brand new thread on it and everything

 

"We renounce no friendship. But it may be part of a friend to rebuke a friend's folly."

Wise words from the hand of Tolkien.

 

Good quote! I've heard that sales of French Wine have dropped significantly in the US -- I don't know if it's been widespread enough to constitute a boycott, but the principle is the same. That I can get behind -- it's the capitalist way to punish someone -- not buying their goods. It may be silly, but at least it's not as silly as changing names of foods.

Most of the editorials I've read have argued that France has it's own reasons for opposing a war with Iraq -- reasons like wanting a strong EU to counterbalance the US, a desire to focus on continental issues, etc. To my mind, they're free to oppose all they want. I may not agree, but that's why they're a sovereign nation, right?

 

I just don't understand why it seems to be the French singled out here. There are lots of countries opposed to attacking Iraq without UN approval not to mention the lack of UN approval itself...

If you really think that the French are alone in their opposition I suggest you try and find some news sources from outside of your own county as it looks like you're a victim of propoganda.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2842767.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2826331.stm

Though posting BBC links is not a great idea as they seem to be a bit pro-government as usual.

The biggest difference I see is that the French Government is one of the few that is listening to what it's people want (which I sort of hoped would be the case in a democracy). In the UK, most of the polls show people disagree with Blair yet he ignores us and tries to drag us into war. Is that a 'strong' leader or someone trying to be a 'dictator'? Fortunatley it looks increasingly likely that he might be booted out soon as a result. My view is that no democratic leader should be able to take his country to war when their is no immediate threat without a referendum.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/uk_politics/03/blairs_political_gamble/html/default.stm

On the other hand, if you are taking the view that France is different because they are an ally of the USA, then I am even more confused. Why don't you consider the USA to be a bad ally for not supporting the French position to try other means? If the US was being attacked the situation would be different but in this case they are the aggressor. After 9/11 the French did support the US in the actions in Afghanistan, as was mentioned above. The only way I can understand the French being classed as a 'bad ally' is if 'ally' means someone who does whatever the US tell them to do regardless of whether it's right or wrong.

PS Just to make this absolutely clear, I am not in any way a supporter of Sadam and would like to see him replaced. The question to me is how can this be done moraly, fairly and legally?
PPS Just a final thought. Someone also tried to justify the war approach to me recently by explaining about all the poor children starving to death thanks to Sadam. I can't help thinking that perhaps dropping food parcels might be more useful to them than dropping bombs.

 

The real reason why the French are taking the stick is that they are a permanent member of the security council and a fellow NATO member.

Since Russia and China can be bought and we're on their side [UK], if the French can't be bought, bullied or otherwise persuaded not to veto a war resolution well, lets call them names!

That as I see it is the key. The German position is the same for example, but they do not have the veto right.

 

Just another event to tell the world how small this place is, and how dumb the people are. You'd think that when the most "intelligent" persons on this planet are there to make things work, it'd amount to something. When in reality the fact is that those leaders and deciders are the same stupid brats who you saw arguing over who had the better looking sand-bucket house when you were a kid. And obviously forgot to grow up with others.

It's amusing really. I don't know if I should be sad or happy of the fact that those people up there are dumber than myself, at least when it comes to wisdom. To basically set a boicot on a country because of it's unwillingness to take part in a war of all things? When the worst reasons it could have for such action could merely equal your own ambitious interests at best? Christ, mankind can be thankful I don't have the means to administrate the education I would gladly grant it.