Dual Class with Barbarian!!

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So I have finally fund a mod that will let me dual class a Barbarian, either from BG Tutu (Install with Easy Tutu which is a must ) or in BG2. For Tutu is ?Tutu tweak pack? found right here on SP, and for BG2 is G3 tweak pack found here .

Anyway, since now is possible, I need suggestion on what level dual to mage; if is important I have 18INT so I do not think it will be problem ... Oh, and I'll be playing from BG1 thru BG2 ToB (including TotSC)

[ January 25, 2006, 20:11: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

Standard answer for a fighter dual of any kind is 13, but barbarians are a little different. At levels 15 & 19 they get more damage reduction, so I'd go with one of those.

 

Wow, to tell you the truth, a barbarian with 18 int. does not sound realistic to me. But then again, your PC is a child of a Dead God, so I suppose...

Are there any other mods to allow dualing illegal classes?

 

@Silverstar-

well, this mod allow barberian and wild mage to dual class, but I have not found anything for paladin or monk. Also, do you have any comment/idea about at what poini should I dual my pc??

And about the INT, well that actualy what I roll, so...

 

Out of curiosity, what are you allowed to DC a barbarian to? I can see some realistic possibilities for a paladin to. Why anyone would want to DC a wild mage is beyond me. (Dual classing TO a wild mage, sure, but not with the wild mage as the first class.)

 

@Silverstar - any barbarian doesn't sound realistic to me. <Charname>, carefully raised and nurtured in the Fortress/Library of Candlekeep to be a... barbarian?

 

@Aldeth the Foppish Idiot-

Barbarians will have the same dual-class options (cleric, druid, mage, and thief) with the same requirement (15 strength) as fighters.

@Truper-

I know, in fact I wanted to play a full canon play thru before I found out that there was a mod that let barbarians dual, but I also always wanted to see what will happen with a PC barbarian/Mage

Anyway, aside from Fel (Thank you for your input ), does anyone else has a comment on when should I dual my pc??

 

Well damage reduction and rage abilities are the wonders of being a barbarian, so get these as high as possible without advancing too high levels. I don't know the details of barbarians advancement, but Fel suggested something and you would do well to listen.

And, yes I agree that such a childhood can't lead to a barbarian. But maybe the Bhaalchild is very feral and really barbaric in his own heart? Maybe the taint affects him such. I guess it makes sense then. Or should all PCs be just mages, clerics or monks? Ah and I wonder how Immy became a level 1 thief. Did Gorion teach her? I don'T think so. Maybe that inn-keeper Winthdrop taught a little but it was ALWAYS in her heart, she had the heart of a thief, she liked the thrill and challenge, and she is innocently naughty...so?

I love her!

 

Yay for Imoen!

But then Silverstar not many classes would make sens and many race wouldn't be realistic either.

But wouldn't the Berseker/Mage be about the same thing as a Barbarian / Mage?

 

Man, barbarians don't have to be rock stupid, haven't any of you ever read Conan?

And yeah, a lot of the possible classes and races make little sense in the context of the protagonist's history, so if you're walking on thin ice you might as well dance.

 

Yes I read MOST of the Conan series, Barbarian, King and Emperor. And I always wondered his ability scores, if he was ever to be converted into AD&D.

I mean, he has inhuman STR (19), no one can deny that OK?

He has great DEX as he uses bows perfectly and avoids blows easily most of the time. (17-18?)

His CON is beyond question, he had endured a lot of nasty things, tortures, wounds, etc and he survived. I guess he has something like 19?

But he is also smart. Really smart. I mean, he is never stupid and always makes good decisions. He knows many battle tactics, is knowledgable about the nature itself and he always finds a way to survive despite the odds. One can say he has much insight. But is it his brain, or INSTINCT as a barbarian? This is open to debate...so.. What's his INT and WIS score?

Ah, and his CHA. Ladies always fall in love with him (big muscles or CHA?) but he is also a GREAT leader when he becomes a general, than a king, and finally a great emperor. Just read the final episodes of his Emperor series, his CHA rocks!

Truly, Conan is an enigma to me. I even don't want to discuss his weapon proficiencies. He seems to be a grand master in axes, and any kind of swords, and maybe bows. And he even has some thieving skills. Oh my!

Like most famous fantasy heroes, Conan is really unique and over-powered. But fun and cool regardless!

 

He knows a lot of languages, excellent leader, kind of introspective. He's a superhuman character, maybe 19/18/19/17/13/18. Man I feel dorky now, haha.

I like the idea that humans share common themes regardless of where and when they live, even pre-history barbaric folk have their brilliant exemplars. Much respect for Robert Howard.

Hmm, now I want to go roll up a barbarian.

 

Really? Can you roll one barb like Conan? It might take ages you know?

So you suggest that COnan is as smart as most mages. Can we suggest that, given the chance, he could become a great mage too? Ofcourse, we have little knowledge about how magic works in Howard's world, maybe mages don't need to be that smart?

What about female species, like Red Sonja, Valeria or Belit? I guess they have amazing DEX, and CHA. Not that huge STR or CON though, maybe? Pretty decent INT! Hmm...it is interesting to think them like that.

 

OK, first to answer the question of when to dual a barbarian: Honestly, I never thought of this before now, because I never knew one could dual a barbarian. The damage reduction Fel refers to is one of the big bonuses of being a barbarian (barbarian rage is obviously the biggest). However, given that you are dualling him to a mage, I really cannot recommend that you wait until level 19 to dual him, as that means you'll need to reach level 20 as a mage to get his barbarian abilities back, which, IMO is way too long. The only way that you can consider going that path is if this was a solo character, and since you didn't say you were soloing him, I'm assuming you're not. I don't have the XP tables in front of me, but I imagine going to level 20 as a mage as to be somewhere around 3 million XPs. Too long to be without barbarian abilities.

So that takes the decision to either level 13 or 15. While it would be REALLY nice to wait until level 15 to dual class, I'm not even sure I can recommend that. The difference betweeen getting a mage to level 14 as opposed to level 16 is 700,000 more XPs. That's a heck of a lot of XPs. I have dualed figheters and rangers at level 13, and even THAT gets painful getting back to level 14 in the next class. If you are a patient person, dual at level 15, although you probably won't be missing out on that much if you do it at level 13. Like I said, level 19 just seem too extreme. You would play almost the entirety of SoA as a barbarian, and nearly the entirety of ToB as a mage, and only at the very end would you be able to do both.

Now to the Conan thing. While I am inclined to agree that his stats must be very high, I think they are more like Sarevoks instead of those listed. Unless you think that Conan is part Orc, there's no way he's getting 19s in Con and Str. Take a look at Sarevoks stats - they look about perfect to me.

 

Silverstar: Conan have SOME thieving skills? During most of his younger years he was basically a full time thief, and from what I remember he was one of the greatest thieves of that time..
He is smart, he could become a mage but he would'nt, the thing he hated most in the world was magic so that's not really an option..

And I would agree with Prine, those stats are just about the same as I would set Conans to.

 

Yeah, Sarevok's kind of a good comparison for Conan, same sort of distribution. Like I said, over 18 STR/CON is superhuman, the only reason I'd suggest it is because Conan is almost undefeatable in combat. But he's not divine or anything so it shouldn't be technically possible.

I don't think he'd want to have anything to do with magic either, he's at odds with it far too much. If you want a magic-user, build a character based on Elric.

 

In a game you have to have some rules to keep, those rules doesn't exist in any other places. There is nothing that says a human can't have 19 str if he is not made within the rules of ad&d. Is there a limit somewhere in real life which determines how strong a human can be? So, in short. Conan can have 19 str and con just because he is that good..

EDIT: Just the same as a lot of NPC's don't fit the rules regarding the classes you can make a character that don't fit the rules regarding race..

 

Well if I am not mistaken Wulfgar of Ice Wınd Dale had a 19 STR, and I guess many famous beings in the realms have in-human stats, practically unattainable by normal people. This is what makes them special. If Wulfgar has 19 STR, I am positive that Conan can have too!

Around what level to dual to a mage? Dualling to a mage is tricky indeed, since in high levels it is the class which requires most XP to level up. But a mage can write spell scrolls for massive XP boost. Why, dump every NPC, drink a potion of Genius or two, and scribe hundreds of scrolls waiting in your (hopefully) bottomless scroll case. With ToB, you can even delete/rewrite spells for endless XP!

Glitch:After Hendak quest, the barkeep in Copper Coronet sells INFINITE amount of Prismatic Spray scrolls, for some reason. Sure they are costly, but pickpocket with a good thief (gulp a lot of master thievery potions and cast Luck, the barkeep has a VERY quick eye!) collect a good heap of them, and rewrite them continously. With 7k XP each write, it is a good source of endless XP.

I dualled a cleric at level 14 to mage. I became a level 15 mage just when I was able to enter Asylum. I had done every other quest available AND I had tons of mods which spawned many, nasty, huge XP monsters in everywhere so I guess it paid off. It was a real fun char, and a powerhorse!

BUT, now I am thinking it, damage resistance is not that great for a mage to have. I mean, mages have Stoneskins, Mirror images, Pfrom weapon type spells. If a mage starts taking damage, he is as good as dead I guess. So I don't think that a barbarian/mage would be very useful, abeit cool. Maybe a barbarian/cleric could be better? As clerics suffer a lot of injuries as they lack a good solid spell like Iron/Stoneskins. That is my opinion anyway. What da ya think?

@Panopticon,

I know he had great thief skills, but I read in one of his comics that in his youth he was a thief who had more courage than ability. The ability means, thief skills ofcourse. Conan was a great thief, but does he know how to pick locks masterfully? Or pick someone's pocket? Did he ever sneak to someone and backstabbed? I don't think so. More than most his courage and strength in combat made him a great daring thief. The 'thief' here does not mean actual class.

Or is Conan an illegal thief dualled into a barbarian? No, he came as a true barbarian from Cimmeria. That was my point. But then again, he also had some fighter levels as he became more proficient in weapons in his training in an army of someone important I can't remember now. So he literally has barbarian, thief and fighter levels? Looks like he was using 3E rules then? ı would HATE to think that.

No, he was always a barbarian, but a very unique one, not your typical stupid half-orc, to say the least. He may have some thief and fighter resemblences, but 2E rules, Player's Option:Skills&Powers covers these and allows that sort of things. I am HAPPY to think like that.

Then, what was his alignment? Chaotic Good? But he had some rules for himself, for example he says frequently that he can not kill a woman. But being a barbarian he can'T be Lawful eh? And his experience as a king shows us that he is not accustomed to laws and strict order. Neutral good then? I don'T know, sounds too pure for Conan. Hmm...I must think upon this further.

 

Hey yeah, you're right, Wulfgar did have 19 STR in his 2nd edition iteration.

Probably right about the general pointlessness of a barbarian/mage, too. Maybe a barbarian/thief?

Edit: on Conan, I'd say a thief, then a barbarian. If characters like Drizzt can somehow metamorph from fighters into rangers at will, then whatever. Very much doubt he'd be good-aligned though, he's altogether too concerned with his own power and wealth. True neutral maybe.

[ January 26, 2006, 15:51: Message edited by: Prine ]

 

YAY I was right!

Hmm a barbarian/thief sounds better I guess. But it will limit his choice of weapons, if he wants to backstab, he can't use classy barbarian weapons like Axes, Great Swords etc.

BTW:I edited my previous post to add some more debate about barbarian/thief Conan, before Prine posted, or I edited at the same time he made a post. Take a look and tell me what do you think?