Dragon Age Forum News

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(Originally posted by chevalier)

Here are today's BioWare forum highlights, collected by NWVault. Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.

David Gaider, Designer

Do away with Divine Magic
I find the D&D cleric kind of strange, myself, and it's put some funny notions in the minds of gamers.

For instance, why are religious spellcasters the only source of healing? I could see that if their god was one of mercy or healing specifically, but for most of our own history most major religions were renown for anything but mercy or healing.

I mean, not saying that this is what we do in DA, but if you were to give a generic "divine" magic to clerics so that they were able to do what they do better, we'd be talking about spells of charisma, mass influence and showy miracles, no?

I like the idea of clerics having magic to suit their individual god, but that does of course presume the existance of a pantheon.

At the very least, since religion exists as such a large part of any medieval-esque society, those that serve said religion should both reflect that power and have abilities that service the dogma and nature of that religion. Meaning they (and the religion) should exist in the context of the world and its history first and their place in an adventuring party second. But that's all I'm going to say about that.

Monks
Monks are historians and scribes who live in monasteries.

Monks

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If you want to drop the Monk from DA, then I think it only fair to also drop the European Paladin, Druid and Bard.
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Maybe. But what does fairness have to do with it? If Paladin, Druid and Bard-type classes fit the setting (and I'm not saying they do) and a Monk-type class does not, then we will have Paladin, Druid and Bard-type classes and no Monk-type class. Clinging to the D&D mindset of what classes could or should exist will get you nowhere.

And, incidentally, in order to "drop" anything from DA, it would have had to have existed there to begin with, no?

More:
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Please, PLEASE tell us that you will have Paladins (my favorite class)and Rangers(my second favorite)

I want to know (So I can get outta this forums if there is none!)

It's not gonna kill you if you mention a few clases....
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We MAY have some classes that have a few things in common with the Paladin and Ranger, I suppose... but those classes specifically? No, of course not. We're not starting with the D&D rules and classes and then modifying them until we get DA, the DA rules are being built from scratch. Off you go, then, I guess.

A questions regarding windows (not MS) in buildings
It's definitely not impossible. One reason not to do it, however, is something Sysuro mentioned... interiors are generally going to be fairly detailed and have a lot of textures that are completely different from those used on the exterior areas.

Another hurdle is having pathfinding and AI that can handle the existence of such barriers as walls.

Both of these problems can be surmounted, and it's primarily just how you intend to model the area to begin with... but either way the end result is a cumulative hit on the framerate. When we started working on NWN a long time ago, the seperation of interiors from exteriors was just one of the design decisions made while allocating where system resources would be allocated.

One of the results of having a fully-3D world, I suppose. With mostly-2D worlds like Fallout, Arcanum or BG you can easily have non-seperate interiors (on smaller buildings, at least), but those kinds of systems are going to have their own drawbacks as well.

More:
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If such is possible, but improbable (if I read correctly), could an alternative such as if inside looking out, proper Sky and time of day be displayed? Or if gazing inward, main non-placables being in view?
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If there is no seperation of the interior of a building from the exterior (it's all part of the same area architecture... the only reason you can't see into or out of a building are the walls in the way), then yes... you'd be able to see in and out of windows (if the windows were set up to be transparent, that is).

But with all those different textures and geometries, you're going to really slow down lower-end systems. I guess it depends on what you need to allocate the computer's resources for.

Another way to allow windows (if it was that important) would be to "stage" them. You walk by a building that, when you enter it, brings you to a seperate area... but you can look through the window into what is essentially a small "boxed stage" on the other side that shows only what you would see of that interior area and itself only exists for looks (the actually interior is completely seperate). Does that make sense?

I guess it all depends on what you need to accomplish. Certainly if the spec requirements for DA are higher, more things are possible... but all that extra processing power might be useable elsewhere (like with massive amounts of AI calculations) rather than this, so you might still want to keep interiors and exteriors seperate. Nothing would please me more, personally, if we could forgo the Tarsis effect of NWN buildings (tiny exteriors, massive interiors), but I suppose we'll see.

Now take off your pants for me.

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Late reply but... I'd be willing to give up at least 25-50% of the combat in exchange for more customization.
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Ummm... let me understand what you're saying here. You'd like a prettier and more unique avatar that could actually do less in combat? As in less combat animations, a smaller selection of weapons and maneuvers in the game? Or less combat encounters in general?

Because if it's the former, I might be a bit baffled by the request but so be it. If it's the latter, then it's not a comparable thing at all... placing combat encounters is a use of resources that already exist, having less of them does not add time for the animators and artists to do more work.

Please don't start the game with a city under siege.

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Ack. No, not beyond my control. I want my character to be able to choose the adventure - not have the adventure choose him.
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If you're going to have an adventure that's actually story-driven, at some level it's always going to be "the adventure chooses him", isn't it? The freedom to choose is essentially illusiory.

As to the first poster, no... the game does not start with a city under siege. Though only because we've done that before, not because there's anything wrong with that approach.

Handling Resurrection
What's sometimes strange is how magic often exists in settings in a moral and logical vacuum. If the possibility of raising the dead exists without ethical complication, then no matter how rare it is it is still a setting-killer (as Shir'le said, essentially). And that's bad.

Equally strange, why does nobody consider the ethical considerations of every 1st-level mage having access to Charm Person? Or, far worse, Dominate?

Just a random thought. Insofar as DA is concerned, anyhow, we are trying to keep the practical place of magic in the setting in mind as we proceed.

More:
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Magic that makes sense...Hmmmmm? Magic use that has certain ethical considerations... Hmmmmm? Would that interfere with my desire to raise demons to deal with those pesky villagers.
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At the very least it would complicate it.

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Quote: In the World of Time series the Aes Sedai are regarded with suspicion if not open hostility.
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Considering that every one of them is this close to boxing your ears, that reaction isn't exactly without its reasons.

Do away with Divine Magic

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In fact, it looks like the only thing people haven't called for is elimination of arcane mages. BUT WHAT IF THEY DO *THAT*!...
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Tut. Such scandalous thinking.

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Quote: Looks like we have some people who would be happy if there were only three classes, warrior, rogue, and mage. (It wouldn't be.)
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Wouldn't it? You seem to be making some assumptions yourself.

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Quote: but I'm still semi-petitioning for one that looks a bit like the cleric which appears in not just D & D but a few PnP and computerized RPGs...
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How much is "a bit"? What role is the cleric filling that you are trying to preserve? Is it a healing role? I think it's already been established that this need not be restricted to clerics, nor even be magical. Is it a religious servant role? Because priests aren't the only folks who worship gods, even as devout and dedicated servants. So I'm curious as to your meaning.

Brenon Holmes, Programmer

Recoverable weapons
Quick question: Assuming we had something like this in the game... would you (as a player) seriously spend the amount of time required combing the landscape to recover all the arrows you've fired?

Even if in a particularly long encounter your two archers may have emptied a full quiver with their uber special moves... meaning maybe upwards of 50 arrows in and around your foes?

Please note that none of the above is indicative of what we may or may not be doing in Dragon Age, so any attempts to draw conclusions about the game/rules/etc... will most likely be fraught with peril. (Yes, I'm considering putting this in my .sig)

Ability to throw any type of weapon.

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But if you are able to throw any weapon (or just normal throwable weapons like daggers and spears), there should be some protection against griefing in the recoverabilty of the weapons.

If i had thrown my expensive magic sword at the enemy, i would not wish it to be picked up by another player. Even if it was non magical, and a packrat player grabbed it up in the confusion, i'd still be short a weapon until i found a merchant again.

May be thrown weapons have like a 5-10min owner tag (visible to anyone if they look at the description), where only the owner can pick it up during that time... or at the very least give the player a message stating who actually took the weapon.
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Griefing? Assuming you were able to throw your ub3r sword at an enemy... why would it be griefing if someone in your party picked it up? Just ask for it back?

Plus I'd assume that throwing your shortsword (something that's not really meant to be thrown, balance of the blade and all that jazz) would probably be more of a desperation type of thing...

More:
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Well in a multi player game you could find yourself playing with someone dishonest/greedy or who just likes to be a pain in the butt for everyone else (i know everyone has met at least one or two while server hopping)

but besides griefing, other things could happen too. Joe has picked up my weapon but before he can return it, his internet connection dies or his wife pulls the plug and he don't come back before i stop playing for the night.

This is why in the NWN OC plot items that quitting/timedout players had appear in that pool in the temples so they won't break the quests. *** happens, so you have to keep timed out players from ruining the other players playing experience... or from them timing out with my sword in their inventory
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That's not even counting the cases where you can get screwed over in a non multi-player environment... for example, what if you throw your precious dagger of dhoom (with the optional microwave attachment) at a plot character who then teleports away (for spooky plot reasons)?

What if you end up throwing it into a bottomless chasm? Or a secluded floating island? What if you hit a flying creature (if we end up having flying creatures) and it flies away? What if you end up throwing it into the ocean or a fast flowing river?

It's almost explicit that if you throw your weapon, you're agreeing to whatever the consequences may be...

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Just because it could be an act of desperation, doesn't mean i wouldn't want my sword back afterwards

I just used a shortsword as an example.. Another way throwing weapons could be used is the fighter types of your party throwing a "volley" of spears at the enemy before engaging with their normal weapons.
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In the case of the shortsword, I meant to indicate that that sort of thing probably wouldn't be happening incredibly often... ie: You wouldn't throw your expensive blade at some guy every fight, you would probably only do it if you really really really needed to do some near-instant damage...

Generally for weapons that are meant to be thrown, you care quite a bit less about where they end up as usually it's pretty easy to acquire new ones if you lose the old ones... (spears, arrows, throwing knives, etc...).

I'm not certain if we'd consider doing some kind of reserve system (saving the item for the player who threw it) if we did the 'throw anything, including the kitchen sink' system... especially as most likely you probably wouldn't be chucking your usual melee weapon about anyways, but it is something to keep in mind if we end up doing something like this.

More: Dodgeball! Er... dodge-blade... er, nevermind...

Tim Smith, Tools Programmer

If kids ruled the world......

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its an expression. in this context I think you can safely assume it to mean 'if we had everything our way...'
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The problem is that it is never just about getting things "our way". It is about getting things "his way", "his way", "her way" and oh "his way" too.

This is why our primary goal is to produce a fun game. If we let of focus waver too much, we end up producing "Frankenstein Age" where tons of bullet features are just sort of wired together. Nobody would enjoy that.