Dragon Age Forum News

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Here are today's Dragon Age forum highlights, collected by NWVault. Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.

David Gaider, Designer

Elven blacksmiths..... What?!
Yes. Very classy. Time to call a time out so everyone can go to their corner and hug the nearest Tolkien book in all its utter perfection.

Is Neverwinte Nights 2 a threat to Dragon Age?
I don't see it, really. Dragon Age is not trying to be NWN2, after all. Those who are looking for NWN2 will get what they want and by the time Dragon Age comes along I'm sure there will be room for another CRPG on everyone's docket.

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I think that NWN 2 will be a significant threat to Bioware for the primary reason that Bioware has yet made a game that has a superior story line to Fallout or Planescape Torment.

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And how is that a threat? Both those games did come out and did not sink other RPG's that came out near or even at the same time as them by sheer virtue of their magnificence.

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Quote: Obsidian has the peeps that have made the best games in the industry and while Bioware has some respectable games with KotOR and BG2 they have yet made a single game that would be considered a masterpiece by the bulk of the CRPG community. David Gaider is a good writer, but Chris Avellone is better.

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I don't get it. So the fact that Chris Avellone is a wonderful writer makes NWN2 a threat to our ego? NWN2's story will outshine and outclass us in every single way so we will all lose hope and morale will plummet and our sales will subsequently be affected? What kind of threat do you mean? Or did you just decide that you felt the need to point out that Chris Avellone is a better writer than I am? That's all it looks like to me. Classy.

More role-playing
I would have to agree on the "realism = more role-playing" motto being expressed in the first post. We certianly won't be having eating or adventurers taking a couple of weeks off to heal. As for whether or not these things can be modded in, we're not really sure yet. The idea is that the game will be less-hardcoded and more moddable than NWN was, but some of the things that were mentioned in the first post are certainly more involved to change than others.

the big question, paladin : the warrior of good, with minor healing ability OR the violeant cleric
In response to the original poster, a paladin is sometimes called "holy man" because that's exactly what he is: a holy warrior directly sponsored by a god and even receiving divine spells. For that particular D&D class there's very little wiggle room for definition despite your preferences. As for what term would be best for your character besides 'atheist'... considering that the existence of the gods in D&D is really beyond question, that kind of non-committal attitude is something I might call 'agnostic', myself.

As for whether there are paladins in Dragon Age, well now... that is indeed an interesting subject. First I'd ask you to define "good" and "justice" for me. Those things tend to be pretty subjective, don't they? I look at the Whitecloaks in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time and I think "Wow... now THAT'S Lawful Good." And short of them actually casting spells, they seem pretty paladin-like to me. I'm sure they believe they are fighting for good and justice.

What's that saying? "Kill them all and God will find His own."

As for whether that kind of character would appear in Dragon Age, I'm not really saying. In light of Dragon Age's world view on these sorts of things, however, that idea of "lawful good warrior" seems a bit narrow.

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Piety was an important virtue in the middle ages and so Paladins were expected to possess it. However, they were certainly not priests, and it would not be IMO be unreasonable to allow atheist paladins in a different society.

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Piety was important in the Middle Ages and everyone was expected to possess it, especially knights... since, really, that's what you're referring to.

And, certainly, it's not unreasonable to allow atheist knights if a society permitted such a thing. In terms of how D&D defined paladins, however (which was not by your historical definition), a paladin's religion was intrinsic. Otherwise what you're calling for is nothing different than a good-aligned fighter class, which is not really a stretch.

Georg Zoeller, Designer

Event Handlers: pre/post/modify/override

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That's in the Jade engine. Did anyone say that's going to be in DA?

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While we don't make promises around here, the likelyhood for this to happen is very very good, it has been a major timesaver for Jade and helps both centralizing (i.e. one place where you can put a debug message to track all plot state changes) and maintaining/locating (i.e. search all conversations for script "j00_a_reward" and list both conversation and parameter) code. There will probably be differences to the way it is implemented, but the result is just too good to be ignored

Is Neverwinte Nights 2 a threat to Dragon Age?
I already posted this into various Jade vs. Fable discussions, this kind of thread has no merit - It's not that people are forced to get married to a game or game company and can't touch anything else because that would be unfaithful. We heard the whole "product xxx will be BioWare's downfall" kind of thing more than once already, it's getting boring.

If anything, competition is good for the customer and for all competing companies as they will innovate in order to deliver a special gaming experience.

That said, BioWare enjoys a good relationship with Obsidian and is providing both engine technology and feedback for NWN2, so we have great interest in NWN2 being very successful.

If DA and NWN2 are successful, all sides win (contrary to what some people think) and the CRPG fans win twice as they get more than just one AAA RPG to play.

I should add that *I* think that our target audience is probably older and more mature than the audience for other genres and for that reason I just pretend that the "my toy will rock your toy" and "robin kicks batgirl" kind of threads are just accidents.

Where can I get dragon age?

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Then why do they already have a huge dragon age forum?

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To be able to benefit from the suggestions of our 2,000,000 people fan community while the game is in development, as opposed to asking people what they would like to see when the game is already out.

 

As for that paladin topic, I tried answering in BioWare forums, but even though I was logged in, it said I wasn't and it required authorisation. When I typed the login and password, it said there was no such topic in any such forum or something along those lines, and the message was lost. That's damn wrong since I spent a whole hour on it.

Won't repeat myself, but the idea is that paladins from historical and literary sources are different from into what the D&D ones evolved. Turning undead, casting spells, being obsessed with laws, that's D&D. In fact, they don't even need to be called paladins, nor even make a separate character class for that matter. Given each Arthurian knight or Charlemagne's peer was different and some had really fancy characteristics, it could be reasonable to make a system of advancement for them much like the way you chose Force Powers in KotOR, HLAs in ToB etc, the effects ranging from auras and permanent boosts, through various trade-offs to abilities usable N times per day or drawing upon a certain limited pool of energy, be it physical stamina or willpower, or faith, or some such.

 

Well, actually, Paladins are religious zealots, not necessarily knights (in the gentlemanesque style) or even good. Just look at the Templars, those were not exactly holy beans either, even though they were a religious knight-sect.

But one thing in d&d has always bothered me: Why are there no evil Paladins? I mean, yes, you have Blackguard, but you can't be a Paladin of an evil deity at start. I don't get it while they never included the dark Paladin as a basic class. Most other universes that have Paladins have them, so why do different with D&d and make it even worse by making Blackguard the most cliche thing ever: to get the most benefit out of it you need to be a fallen Paladin.

 

In D&D perhaps, but the very word "paladin" means "of the palace" - it's a bastardisation of the Latin "palatinus". Historically, that would in most cases mean a king's trusted general, offspring of a collateral line of the ruling dynasty, or some such status. Here good truly wasn't that much of a big concern, although lawfulness might have been. Nobility as nobility of birth and/or status rather than nobility of character or spirit.

Plus, in those legends the only two situations when a paladin can be not a knight are 1) when he's too young to be one 2) when he's not a he, oh pardon the pun.

Don't make the mistake of taking D&D for the totality of RPG, or worse, confusing things between the historical or literary roots and the D&D paladin concept. It's just a representation and not a very faithful one.