Dragon Age Forum News (Sep. 08, 05)

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Here are today's Dragon Age forum highlights, taken from the Dragon Age Official Forum. Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.

David Gaider, Designer

Ambient beasties
Not that some ambient creatures don't have their place, but if they're just scenery they're naturally going to receive far less priority and thus there will be far less of them. Just thought that should be noted.

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But these forums are for the wild wish-lists, no?

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*groan* I suppose. Sometimes I just feel the overwhelming need to swoop in and be the reality fairy, I guess.

Religion of TheDAS

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Does anyone have any ideas on how religion may have an effect on the game? I know we don't have enough details (like with everything), but I love these boards for the ideas that come out of them. Some people have completely different views and disagree with each other. I think that's the beauty of it! What would you like to see within the story line in terms of religion? An inquisition where heresy is rampant (in the church's eyes) and everyone must watch what they say/do for fear of persecution? Holy Wars? One Religion with several gods each with a temple dedicated to them and hubris playing a role? The Illiad, The Odyssey type themes?

These are just some examples... If you were Bioware, what would you put in the game?
And if you are Bioware feel free to pipe in if this is completely meaningless or only moderately meaningless!

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The thing that always struck me about the D&D-type setting was that faith wasn't a driving force of the land. Because gods were such known entities... you knew they existed, they granted spells and even appeared from time to time, there's no mystery involved... their temples always seeme to me to be, I don't know, more like branches of a bank.

Insert prayer here.
Receive blessing and/or holy spells.
Have a nice day.

Having faith as one of the actual driving forces in the land is really appealing to me. I hope we can give it the appropriate feel in the game itself.

I also like the idea of a religious inquisition. Stuff like that just gives me goose pimples. But I would hesitate to characterize religion in such broad strokes for fear of them becoming seemingly villainous. If they have an inquisition, it would likely be founded on very sincere reasoning... and in a world where magic really does exist, such reasoning and fear would not be hard to imagine. Faith exists, after all, because mankind fears nothing so much as that which is unknown.

What do class/Race starting points bring to DA?

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I was under the impression that your background defined your starting position but it might be that race and class determine what backgrounds are available for you.

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Correct, and as Shayna mentioned you always have the option of selecting "no background" via the Mysterious Stranger if you don't want any of the backgrounds available and would rather imagine something unique for yourself.

Having those backgrounds might seem "constraining" to some, I suppose, but most RPG's are either going to provide a single background or no background at all anyway... at least this way the details will potentially reflect the choices you've made in character creation, and you've the ability to opt out if you really can't handle being anything other than a cave-dwelling monkey ranger, setting be damned.

BioWare outsourcing artwork to India

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Bringing it back to DA... if Bioware hires 'in-house' artist, then they probably won't have the funds to hire as many programmers, designers and storytellers. As a buyer, we will get the same quality graphics, but will have a less robust toolset and story.

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Are you getting the impression that these Indian companies are providing artwork on the cheap?

I really doubt that's the case. Bioware has art content needs that it has to meet, and it will go wherever skilled labour can be found... and in this age of internet goodness such skilled professionals can be found in India just as easily as Iceland or South Africa or, hey, northern Canada.

I think we would actually prefer to meet all our needs with qualified in-house artists, but that's not always possible to do. If there are qualified artists out there concerned about keeping jobs local, then by all means... come, apply. ...APPLY, I SAID! *stare*

Henchman Quests

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but the way I understand it, the party members will not be player-created

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I don't think we've ever said that, have we? I wouldn't assume that, anyhow.

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and will have their own personalities to interact with eachother and the PC. Which means to me, they will have their own histories and agendas. That is really cool. And it opens up the opportunity for personal quests. Also really cool.

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Yes, there will be banter and plots between the party members as well as quests not dissimilar to those found in KotOR and BG2.

I notice NWN is singled out here and I'll point out that NWN did not have a party, for starters. It also was never intended to have actual henchmen, either, and everything that was there was written later on inside of a week. I think some of the characters were enjoyable, but I don't think we'd do something so limited again... certainly not for an actual party-based game.

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re: party creation.
Ok. My mistake, I know there realy hasn't been much concrete info out, I must have just confused the talk around the forum for something that was said. I must say, I am sort of hoping it is the case though, that the player won't create all of the party members, I like idea of meeting others and finding "new friends" and that sort of thing.

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You say that like it must be either one or the other. Heh.

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I guess I was kinda hoping for a bit of discussion on what kinds of quests that people would like to do for their party members.

Things like:
Rescuing/helping family and friends
business partners/investment opportunities
fending off the law, or loan sharks, or just some badass goons
helping track down an heirloom, or a valuable peice of information

but these things we've already seen. What else can we do for our buddies?

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Well, plots involving party members are no different than normal plots, really, except that you have the plot-giver traveling with you and commenting so it makes the entire plot a bit more interactive... which can be fun.

Speaking personally, the party member quests I enjoyed writing the most in BG2 were the ones that weren't really quests, per se. The one with Keldorn's wife and Mazzy's sick sister, for instance. Indeed, that's where I got the inspiration from for the quests I wrote in KotOR, with Carth's son and Bastila's mother. It was the quest-y part of those two plots (go to x and retrieve y) that felt clunky and added-on, in fact (to me, anyhow), but we sort of had to do that there because in KotOR there was only time for one per character. The plan for DA is to have more, but I suppose on that account we'll have to see.

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Oh, I know stuff changes in development and that DG is an easy target for that kind of thing as he posts most often on this forum, but I couldn't resist

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Hmm. I guess I did say that, after all, didn't I?

Well, in my defense it was true then and isn't entirely false now... but it's not entirely true anymore as things have changed since then, and I'll leave it at that.

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Well, that was the kind of clarification I was looking for ...er...um... ?

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Well, the assumption seems to be that your party members are either all pre-created characters a la BG2 or player-created characters a la IWD... but as it stands currently neither of those options is necessarily true.

That may not clear things up, but there you go.

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I liked the Jaheira(? the druid-woman) quest in BG2.

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I think all the party NPC quests should be as involved as that , though I'm not sure Bioware could cope with all their DA writers needing therapy afterwards

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Considering the fact that we never did get the Jaheira romance to work correctly, the chances of us doing something that complex ever again are approximately nil. Though that's not to say that some of the elements of the plots in Jaheira's romance might not be good to revisit.

Stanley Woo, QA Ninja

The Opening Scene

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The BG I opening was also the tutorial. I don't recall being particulary impressed by the horses and gray-robed monks...? The fountains near Gorion were cool, though.

I understand this is an unconfirmed rumor, but there is talk on the street that Narlen Darkwalk will be making an appearance in at least one of the opening DA sequences. Nothing beats seeing an old friend at the beginning of a new adventure.

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Oh, Argyle. Always with the Narlen Darkwalk. If by "talk on the street" you mean wou said it while walking "on the street," then you would likely be correct.

Since I'm researching game start states and world introductions for the QA department, this is a great thread for me to just jump in and start flapping my jaw.

For example, The Lord of the Rings: The Third Age for XBox did it this way: a rehashing of the Ring's history, using video from the films; the introduction of the PC's avatar; a short combat where the PC is beaten; introduction of the second party member; then the game starts in earnest. This takes almost 7 minutes from the time the player hits "New Game" to the point where he has full control. Conversely, X-Men Legends took only 95 seconds to put the player in the action. Even Neverwinter Nights, epic as it was, had a mere 2.5 minute opening narrative.

Some questions to consider:

- How important is the opening cinematic? How important is character introduction at the start of the game (ie. do you like the character to be fully realized at the start, or do you prefer him to develop while in play)?

- When delving into a new world, how long should it be before you start to get your hands dirty in exploring the map and discovering the world/story?

I'd love to get feedback on this, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks.

Is there Adult Content in DA?
Many people are after more "mature" games because they're tired of the industry self-censoring and are finally looking forward to the kind of content in games that are seen in R-rated films, like excessive blood and gore, full-frontal nudity, sexual situations, and coarse language.

Sorry to burst your bubble, ladies and gentlemen, but none of that stuff is actually very "mature." It's adult, certainly, but isn't what we would consider to be suitable for the kinds of games we make.

Yes, Jade Empire had special effects for decapitation and chunking, and that's what gave it a Mature rating. But even that came about because we were actively considering what kind of cool finishing moves we could include in the game, not because we were going "mature content" crazy.

But look at Baldur's Gate II and its content and themes. That level of content ain't mature enough for you? It had racism, sexism, love triangles, torture, honour, and many other concepts that could be considered "mature." But it did not have any nudity, coarse language suitable for today's urban music, random mutilations, or any other content unsuitable for the average Joe Gamer.

The call for more mature content is like putting the cart before the horse, don't you think? If we concentrate on getting "mature content" in the game, it will look tacked on, superfluous, and will end up an unsatisfying game experience. If we tell the story we want to tell and it happens to include a graphically violent murder that absolutely has to be shown in all its glory for full visceral effect, then that's what we'll do.

BioWare will continue to include content in their games for story reasons, first and foremost. There is little that explicit sex and gore can do that implicit sex and violence can't. And I think that's what other people in this thread are saying: if the story doesn't need it, don't put it in.

Jot Down Your Minor Ideas Here.

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Towns with people. Please oh please put towns with people. I cant stand when i walk into a supposedly vibrant town and the only people there are the two I need to talk to for quests. Make this a feature that has a slider. You can determine the number of people in towns, depending on your vid card.

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So people with minspec machines will still have vibrant towns where the only people are the ones you need to talk to?

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And for NPCs, have them glow or mark them with something so you know who to talk to.

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If there are only two people, how hard can it be?

But seriously, why not just look in your quest journal to find out who you're supposed to talk to? A proper quest journal should point the guy out almost as easily as a flashing "talk to me" symbol, using lines like "Talk to Jensen McJensen in Townsville. He normally hangs out at Slash's Snake Pit."

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And they will "participate in massive battles" involving hardly any people too..?

Won't designing the DA engine for those massive battles mean even at the min specs the game should be able to populate towns with the odd decorative NPC?

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Indeed. In Jade Empire, for example, we got around that problem by including ambient crowd objects that took up as little memory as possible. Peppering the crowd areas with actual models with collision and tags and little dialogues helped to make the highly populated areas like the Imperial City look and feel more realistic.

Derek French, Technical Producer

Ambient beasties

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Sometimes I just feel the overwhelming need to swoop in and be the reality fairy, I guess.

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I don't think that there is any good way to describe the metal image that am currently burdened with...