Dragon Age Forum News (Apr. 03, 05)

chevalier · Jan 3, 2018

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Here are today's Dragon Age forum highlights, collected by NWVault. Please take into account that these are only single parts of various threads and should not be taken out of context. Bear in mind also that the posts presented here are copied as-is, and that any bad spelling and grammar does not get corrected on our end.

David Gaider, Designer

BG2 level interaction?
Hmm. I'm not sure that you appreciate the kind of hoops that need to be jumped to in order to accomodate this sort of thing into a logical gameworld. The problems we encountered in BG2, for instance... the whole Renal Bloodscalp thing that was mentioned earlier was implemented simply because a player could potentially alienate the Shadow Thieves after already cutting off the Bohdi path.

And if it isn't logical, if the world doesn't react... or, worse, if you're just allowed to cut off plots and the game just ends (or just allows you to flounder)... what is gained by it?

Some small sense that if you wanted to you could?

For such a small payoff it isn't worth it. What's more, it won't happen in DA. Period.

Monks Part II
The only monk in the DA world is the kind that fights by screaming and throwing dusty, old books at you. Unarmed fighting doesn't go beyond brawling, at least at this point.

That means you won't be buying the game? So be it. I'm sure there are others who will pass for pettier reasons than that.

Making Dragon Age the best it can be: A list of suggestions

I'm still unsure whether I'll even bother to buy Dragon Age, given its possible lack of monks
Possible lack nothing. There are no monks, not like you're suggesting. Guess you won't be buying the game, then. Pity.

Quote: 1. Base of Operations
That's not a bad idea, so long as the story allowed for it or centered around it. This sort of thing wouldn't work for all sorts of stories.

Quote: 2. Battle Sequences
As someone else said, this isn't an RTS game. There's only so far you can go with this. But I think it would be cool.

Quote: 3. Hierarchical Organization
I think Dragon Age can learn a thing or two from the brilliant Elder Scrolls games when it comes to organizations.
Which is what? How to interact with a spreadsheet but still feel important?

To be serious, I didn't mind the organizations myself, though I found them pretty much the same overall. Again, in the right kind of story it would work. It worked in Morrowind, I think, because the whole game revolved around you being dropped into a world simulation where you had no pressure to continue the story. I know how much that presses your button (and many others who also thought Morrowind was keen)... but once again I will say that that's simply not the kind of game we're doing. Period.

Quote: 4. Social Contact
It would be good if you can develop social and romantic relationships with people OUTSIDE your immediate party. These can even be with NPCs
Yes, we tried this. I've got two words to say regarding this: Aribeth and Aarin Gend. I'll probably just get a "oh, but you didn't do it right" kind of response, but I think it's pretty universally acknowledged that the romances suffered by not having the characters adventure with you. You can't have a romance in a CRPG that exists only in narrative... doesn't work that way.

Quote: 5. Reputation: Recognition and Respect, or Fear and Loathing
This isn't a new request, but it's a good one.

Quote: 6. Atmospheric Music and Accents
Forget boring and repetitive music. Don't splurge on "classical" type music. <snip> Be bold. Go 80's.
So you want us to do the Ladyhawke soundtrack? Ummm... yeah. Next.

Quote: 7. Exotic Classes
Christ on a pogo stick, there are no monks already.

Quote: 8. General and Specialty Classes
So all specialized or strange classes are bad except for the monk. Yeah, okay. That doesn't sound narrow-minded at all.

Quote: 9. Color
One of the worst things about the LOTR movies was that most everyone was dressed in rather drab colors (blacks, earth tones, and grays). Get some vibrant color in! Like in Chrono Cross (or many of those old SNES games). In fact, if you look at some old medieval artwork, *everybody* seemed to love color, abstract or floral patterns, big hats, big hair and embroidery - sort of like the 80s! Again, don't be timid Bioware. Be bold!
There's bold and then there's having warriors who look like drag queens with a prom dress fixation. Floral patterns? Big hats? Big hair? Did you direct an Elton John video, perchance?

Quote: 10. Varied Terrain Scenes
This we're doing, pretty much. One of the benefits of more advanced graphical tech. Check out Jade Empire and you'll see what I mean.

Quote: 11. Comedy
Don't take the game too seriously. Put in some comic moments from time to time.
Oh, but we never do that.

Ah. But I see we're supposed to do this, just no overdo it? So... what? You want witty Monty Python banter? Pie-in-the-face stuff? Sexual innuendo? You seem to be pretty specific on what you find acceptable, so it's probably best for me to ask.

Quote: 12. Diversity
Even if Jar Jar is out (and rightly so), this doesn't excuse the writers from developing diverse characters.
So long as they're monks, right? Because we never make diverse or unusual characters that aren't Jar Jar.

Quote: 13. Continuity
Lay the ground for the sequel. People want continuity, not moment to moment "planet of the week" episodes a la Star Trek: The Next Generation.
Because it fared so poorly? What are you, on crack? If you're going to present a slanted argument, at least mention a crappy TV show. Like, I don't know, Three's Company.

Quote: 14. The Usual
So... now you're advising us of stuff we'll do anyway? Well, gee, thanks for the tip.

Quote: 15. Personal Guru
Maybe an alternative to fighting out in the wild or solving puzzles as a means to level is training with your personal guru. I alluded to this in #1. In the special case of the monk <snip>
We'll just stop right there.

Quote: 16. Mini-Games
That is, small games within the game. This would add more depth to the game. Look to the Japanese console games for inspiration.
Or, ummm, maybe KotOR? Regardless, I sure as hell hope not. I hate minigames. Mainly because they rely on player skill rather than character skill. Consoles can keep 'em.

Quote: 17. Multiple Henchmen
The more the merrier. NWN allowed only one, which was not as good as the multiple henchmen allowed in BG. Get in some good conversations too, with interactive dialogue - imagine talking about today's adventures (or the meaning of life, social lapses, the economy, or whatever) in a bar or around a campfire with your companions. And if people want companion animals or familiars - add them.
Keep up with current events. You will have a party in DA. And, yes, there will be conversations with them.

There will not, however, be animal companions or familiars, whether people want them or not.

Quote: 18. Common Sense Realism
This sounds like one of them oxymorons.

Quote: 19. Good Taste, Bad Taste
I've looked at some of the conceptual screen shots of Dragon Age
That was a demo for the technology, not the clothing style or artistic style that DA will have. But even if it was... dignity? Come on, really?

Quote: 20. Level Cap
I'd say get rid of the cap (don't impose any more limits than you have to), but if not, at least set it VERY HIGH. Freedom folks.
Umm... if there's a level cap, it's there for a reason. Removing it isn't freedom. And to advocate removing a level cap before you even know what the system involved is remotely like strikes me as more than slightly premature.

Quote: 21. Spawning
For those who wish to max out their levels, include repeated spawning of enemies, or at least have an spawning option in the 'Options' control.
Ah, yes. So you can max out those levels you just uncapped. I get it.

Quote: 22. Real 3D
I don't know if a third axis is in the works, but flying or swimming would be nice additions. These aren't new technologies - Daggerfall (1996) featured these to great effect.
Daggerfall also didn't have a party and showed everything from first-person view. There's a reason why FPS games have this as a standard, because moving about in the environment is 75% of the game.

Quote: 23. Unique Powers
One of the good things about the Baldur's Gate series was that you can be potentially MORE powerful then what your class/character level indicates.
Well, if the level cap is removed, you're already more powerful than that. And if you're a monk, too, WATCH OUT!

Quote: 24. Detailed Endings
The ending in NWN was blatantly unforgivable. It basically left a huge void between NWN and HotU, which never was adequately explained.
Err... there is no connection between NWN and HotU. Some people took their NWN character into HotU anyhow and then complained about it, but whatever.

Quote: 25. Of Capes and Turbans
I would add a variety of clothing as well.
Because looking good in a sparkling turban while climbing a wall and listening to 80's tunes is what roleplaying is all about. Choices. Immersion. Feel the burn.

Anyhow. That took longer than I thought it would. Whew. Back to work, now.

Making Dragon Age the best it can be: A list of suggestions

Wow David, you sure sound angry today.
Sarcasm doesn't require anger. Just a few cups of coffee and some snug underwear.

Making Dragon Age the best it can be: A list of suggestions

it's not what everyone wants, and it's not appropriate for every product.
Like Narlen Darkwalk?

Monks Part II

I'm confused does that mean there is no unarmed combat at all?
I think the plan is to have basic brawling... in terms of punching someone, that sort of thing. But not an unarmed combat that is a realistic alternative to a weapon.

We might add in some kind of advanced unarmed combat in the future, but it's not a feature for DA right off the bat and isn't an element in the background world's culture.

Gay Characters in DA
We've done it before, and we would do it again in the right project.

If we included a gay romance for the PC in DA, it would definitely have to be something solely player-initiated, I would think.

Certainly I would have no qualms writing such a character, provided it isn't meant to be titillating.

Making Dragon Age the best it can be: A list of suggestions

Quote:
Quote: 7. Exotic Classes

Christ on a pogo stick, there are no monks already.
So you're blaming me for not looking into the future and discerning your oracular pronouncements?
No, but I am saying that you did seem rather fixated on the whole monk thing. How many different ways can someone say "I'd really like to see a monk in this game of yours." Apparently a lot.

Quote:
8. General and Specialty Classes

So all specialized or strange classes are bad except for the monk. Yeah, okay. That doesn't sound narrow-minded at all.
As I heard someone else say in this forum, you get points off for mischaracterizing my argument.
I was reading between the lines. It's not like you were particularly subtle.

Quote:
9. Color
There's bold and then there's having warriors who look like drag queens with a prom dress fixation. Floral patterns? Big hats? Big hair? Did you direct an Elton John video, perchance?
Heh, no. Again, I was being somewhat facetious, but the point still stands. Being conservative in terms of colors lead to blandness. I'm not advocating some garish medley of colors, of course, but a dull monotone would perhaps be worse.
I don't think we've ever done dull monotone colors before. Why would we start now? I suppose you might simply be commenting on the tech demo screenshots, but even there while the landscape is sort of arid and desert-like I don't think the color palette is monotone at all.

Well, NO Jar Jar Binks for one. I think you know who I'm talking about...
If you're talking about Deekin, then I would have to say that that's not only an overly superficial comparison but also pretty elitist. Deekin is one of the best characters I've written and I stand by him.

Quote:
Quote: 14. The Usual

So... now you're advising us of stuff we'll do anyway? Well, gee, thanks for the tip.
How would I have known you'll be putting that stuff in Dragon Age? You put that in NWN-HotU, true. But you also put monks in NWN-HotU, but none in DA. Go figure?
Yes, how strange that we would implement a D&D class in a D&D game yet not do so in a non-D&D game. Our ways are mysterious and legion.

Quote:
Quote: 17. Multiple Henchmen

Keep up with current events.
The last time I checked, the status of Dragon Age henchmen has not made it to the front cover of the New York Times. I'll check again, though. Edit: I checked - something about the pope, an election in Zimbabwe, but no Dragon Age henchmen.
The New York Times is not necessary. We have this neat thing that Brenon mentioned called an FAQ. Amazing thing, that.

Quote:
Quote: 24. Detailed Endings
Err... there is no connection between NWN and HotU.
Yes there is. You play a different character, but there is tie-in.
There are a couple of characters from the original campaign, but it's a completely different story. And you can talk to those characters and get a pretty complete picture of what has gone on since the OC's story if that's what you're concerned about.

Quote:
Because looking good in a sparkling turban while climbing a wall and listening to 80's tunes is what roleplaying is all about. Choices. Immersion. Feel the burn.
Uh, I don't think I'm alone in the endless requests for cloaks, hats, and other gear.
No. You're certainly not.

Quote: It's too bad that you, in your seemingly lithified ways look at these honest suggestions (whether good or bad) sarcastically and pompously. I'm not surprised, you being a man of your, uh, stature - but even I wouldn't dismiss Dragon Age, even if there are no monks per se - it just will NOT be an automatic buy.
My ways are lithified? I hope you say that with the appropriate sense of irony.

Gay Characters in DA

I really like the way TROIKA did it in ToEE with the character Bertram. I really liked that it was not big deal to get in contact to a gay character.
Hmm. I found the romances to be far too superficial in ToEE to think much of any of them (not to sound negative but they're only a few lines long in total, after all). But I suppose you're right in that Bertram was not treated as a big deal, which is a plus.

Still, didn't you feel that Bertram was a bit... over the top? I mean, gay pirate cabin boy? WIth a pointy hat? I mean, my initial impression was that the character was completely not serious and was there for shock value.

Quote: @David
In which Game of Bioware was a gay character??
Do you mean Juhani in KotOR??
The romace between Juhani and a female PC was absolutely not comparable to the straight romance. It was much to subtle, it has no dramatic meaning like the straight romances had!
It was disappointing!!
I suppose that argument could be made. We received a lot of positive feedback on it, and I thought the subtlety was far preferable to the titillation it could have potentially had.

If anything, we might have avoided being blatant out of a concern that the license holder would object. I don't think that need always be the case, should we choose to revisit the theme.

Darcy Pajak, Assistant Producer

Monks Part II
I think the only non-weapon combat we motion captured were two people slapping at each other.

The super ninja crane-style karate moves may come in a later expansion, but do not expect to see it in Dragon Age.

Derek French, Technical Producer

2005 release?

I just took a look at my usual gaming store and saw that they have Dragon Age available for pre-order and that its "release 2005"

I was under the impression that DA wont be out until mid-2006 ?
Never, ever, EVER believe a release date for one of our games unless we post about it.

Dragon Age is definately not being released in 2005. We don't even have a publisher for the game yet.

linux support
No decision has been made on this one way or another, nor can it be, until we have a publisher for Dragon Age.

I know I know.. this topic has been beat to death.. but I just want to add my 2 cents.

1. Wine is not the solution. I"m tired of playing games via wine.. its just not the solution so stop pretending like it is.
I doubt any game developer has ever stated that Wine was a solution.

Quote: 2. Cross platform is not hard to accomplish. Assuming the developers think cross platform from the start. Ummm... SDL . OpenAL.. houston we have a winner.
Cross platform is hard to accomplish. Its not just a matter of selecting things that run on all platforms. Each platform has its own unique quirks that makes it challanging. There are problems that you will encounter on one platform that you will not on the other. The same issue will manifest itself differently on different platforms. Finding experienced programmers for Windows is one thing. Finding experienced programmers for Linux is quite another. Since I have overseen single-platform and multi-platform game development, I can definately say that single-platform development is more straightforward (I won't say its easier). Better the devil you know...

Is it impossible? No. Challanging? Yes. Painful at times? Yes. Rewarding? Yes. Scary at times? You bet.

Quote: 3. I simply will no longer purchase software with no native linux support.
While I understand what you are saying, it is really quite an odd statement. You won't buy something that won't run on your computer? Fair enough, mate.

Quote: 4. Its time the game development community opened their eyes to linux and stop trying to sell it off with lame excuses.
Again, I don't think any game developer has tried to do it away with lame excuses. The "excuses" have been very credible and easy to understand.

"We have never developed a game under Linux before and as such, the risk factor is too high for us.", "It is not financially viable for us to make a Linux game.", "Our publisher refuses to support a game made for Linux." - I think that none of these reasons are lame. Do they make sense to a Linux gamer? Of course not, but that doesn't make the reasons any less real or final.

linux support

The solution is simple. Linux users must simply be harsh with software and hardware developers to support linux.
Nope, that wouldn't work with me. Making fair and logical arguments in a calm and rational manner would get you further with me than being "harsh". Since you would have everything to lose it would be better to procede in a positive manner.

Worked for Ghandi

linux support

Can someone please explain this to me:
These people want a version for Linux for PC, right?
Why?
Windows is available for the PC.
Why not just buy and install Windows and just play the game?
Because of the cost of Windows and the time and money to replace all the software that they currently are using under Linux. If you asked me to do that on my Linux server, it would cost me a good $500-$1000 to switch everything over to Windows and Windows-based software. Change everything for a $50 game? I don't think anyone would be up for that.

Quote: Windows is very useful for playing a bunch of other cRPGs, besides.
So why exactly do you want a Linux version? I simply don't get it.
People that use Linux want games that run on their computers, just like people that have Macs want games that run on their Mac.

Quote: Really, I even strongly suspect that you already actually HAVE Windows. So even more - WHY?
Probably because they don't have Windows. I know plenty of people that don't use Windows for their desktop and server machines.

Quote: - Because you want to make use of BW and DA in some kind of private obsession with 'war of the systems'?
- How screwed is that?
All OS wars never lead to anything useful. Its no different that people having arguments over what car brand is the best or what shoe brand, etc. Some people just like to argue, and that happens on all sides of the OS fence.

Brenon Holmes, Programmer

Making Dragon Age the best it can be: A list of suggestions
Few things.

The FAQ has a lot of basic information about what we're planning.

The released screenshots are from the concept demo, so anything you see there is purely conceptual - it's meant to show to publishers so they can get a feel for what we're planning.

It is unlikely that we're going to disclose a great deal of information about the game, especially at this stage. Keep in mind we're stilly early in development.

With that in mind, I don't think the amount of information floating around in the community is unreasonable.

Additionally, past experience has shown that even casual discussion about an implemented/planned feature can lead people to believe that a particular feature is definetly going to be in the game. When in fact, if a feature needs to be changed or cut... it will be.

So, with that in mind... you won't get a feature list. You won't get definite confirmation on anything that could change (quite a few features).

What you do get is discussion (infer what you will from those discussions), and while we may not always agree with what is said... I think we're interested in at least some of what pours out of the collective mouth of the community.

Dan Whiteside - Designer

Yet another question from yours truly...
They did this in the beginning of The Bard's Tale for the Xbox. The Bard gets snarky with an npc who is trying to tell you to push certain buttons to make magic work.

Woot! Good to know, having an NPC explain the controls to me just kills the immersion factor. If BioWare ever includes an in game tutorial again I want the option to stay in character:

NPC: "To open your inventory, just use the 'I' key"
PC: "My back-pack isn't locked... why would I need a key?!"
NPC: "...err... the 'I' key on your keyboard."
PC: "I keep my keys on a ring, keeping them on a board would be silly."
NPC: "...Your hopeless..."
PC: "Well, at least I don't keep my keys on a board!"
<End Tutorial>

--ygg

Merging DA with DA2
I loved the World of Xeen.

As for this:
"However, Bioware's posts have emphasized reducing exploration and "channeling" the player along the main story-arc.

They also indicate a predilection to limit the world to that required to tell the exact story. In fact, they first decide on the story and then create the minimum world needed to tell it -- or so their posts indicate."

I'm not sure how you mean this. If you mean did we make the toolset, then create a bunch of areas and towns and finally go, "Okay, we have a bunch of places and people, now lets come up with a story that we can fit into all this setting." No.

What we did do was create a huge world document, filled with history, geography, races, important people and then say, "Okay, we have an interesting world, now lets tell a story that we would all enjoy playing." Once that was done, then we start building areas that help us tell our story.

Probably not what you wanted to hear.

Merging DA with DA2
I've been on DA ever since I finished Kingmaker. I'm just usually quieter. Now that the sections of DA that I was working on are written, I'll be going back to the Live Team.
It's hard to answer that without giving away some serious reveals for context. This is not an exploration based game, so no massive "This entire town is filled with sidequests, but has nothing to advance the plot," areas.

Yet another question from yours truly...

Thats not the real Bard's Tale.
Thank you for clearing that up. I was horribly confused and thought for a second that the bard's tale I played was a real one, not a fake. Someone should report the fraud those developers have perpetrated on my X Box.

Good Fun!
r00fl3s
whatever

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Dragon Age Forum News (Apr. 03, 05)

chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran