Clerics...

Remove all ads!

First, hey all. First time poster.

I played a Paladin up to the city of Baldur's Gate before I realized I can't stand being LG (yeah that's a pretty long time to play before I realized it but the city itself is what really made me realize it).

I'm trying to RP my way through the game (so I'm using the default party: Imoen, Minsc, Khalid etc etc) and I've decided to go with a Neutral Good Cleric.

Now I know about 18 Wis, however I'm a bit stumped as to the rest of his ability scores. I don't want to powergame him, but I don't want to really gimp him TOO much. Kind of looking for some decent stats to carry him along near the front of the party instead of in the back.

 

I would go for strength and constitution as most likely your cleric will be up front most times and charisma would be another stat I'd look at.

 

18 WIS for max spells, high DEX for good AC, 16 CON for max HP, high STR for tanking. Ideally, you'd be something like this:

STR 18
DEX 18
CON 15-16
INT 3+
WIS 18
CHA 18

Options for downgrading:
You don't need CHA at all if Imoen is going to do the talking in towns (AKA make her the leader of the group every time you walk into town). Just have her pickpocket Algernon's cloak and wear it to boost her CHA up to 18 and you're set.

A CON of 16 gives you max HP for a non-warrior. Whether you want to start at 16 and give the Tome of CON to someone else, or start at 15 to get the most out of your starting stats, is up to you.

Each point you take from DEX is a point you make your AC worse (down to 14, where DEX has no positive effect), so I'd suggest at most one point down only if you're going to take advantage of the Tome of DEX. There is an AC difference between 17 and 18 DEX, but no AC difference between 18 and 19 DEX (just missile weapon bonus), and no difference at all between 19 and 20 DEX (if you were playing an elf or halfling).

DON'T take anything from STR or WIS. WIS is too important for the extra spells, especially as it gets up to god-like levels with the three Tomes of WIS in the game. STR has a big jump between 18 and 19, and your cleric will get a big boost in tanking power late in the game when he gets that Tome.

 

I agree with most of what Fel said. Also, I would like to add that you should know where the bonuses and penalties come into play. For most stuff, the bonuses hit at 15, and the penalties start in the range of 6-9, depending on what specific statistic you're talking about.

Strength: This one is pretty linear unless you have exceptional strength. Since you're playing a cleric this won't come into play. So more strength yields more carrying capacity (you can carry more stuff without becoming encumbered) and better to hit and damage rolls. I agree with Fel that an 18 is highly desirable, as there is a huge jump in to hit and damage between 18 and 19 (18 is +1/+2, while 19 is +3/+7).

Constitution: The bonus starts at 15, and maximizes at 16. The penalty doesn't kick in until you hit a constitution of 6. Anything between 7 and 14 give you no bonus or penalty. So it's kind of silly to give you character a constitution of 14. Either go to 16, or drop it down to 7.

Dexterity: Pretty much the same as Constitution. You get an AC bonus of 1 for each point above 14, until you reach 18. Penalties again start at 6. So again, it's silly to have a dexterity of 14.

Intelligence: Other than lore value, a cleriic has no use for intelligence, and it won't impact your game in any way.

Wisdom: Definitely 18 here. 18 gives you two additional 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells. I'm not entirely certain of what a 21 yields, but I think it's 4 additional 1st level spells, 3 additional 2nd level spells, 2 additional 3rd and 4th level spells and one additional 5th level spell. At level 9, he'll have so many spells, he'll be the only cleric you'll need.

Charisma: Charisma is pretty linear in terms of how others react to you upon your first meeting, but generally speaking, the bonuses you get from merchants and obtaining more favorable results from quests and the like are only obtainable by very high charisma scores. However, low charisma can really hamper you. As a result, I recommend against going below 10. However, unless you are going to max it out at 18, there isn't a whole lot of value to be gained between 10 and 18.

Overall: Fel has outlined the "ideal" cleric starting attributes. However, as a cleric the only minimum you will be able to count on during character creation (barring a possible racial minimum) is wisdom, so getting the required 91 total starting points may be quite difficult. My advice to you if you aren't patient enough to roll this character (I wouldn't be) would be to pick one of those stats and lower it the minimum before you hit the penalty (I'd probably pick constitution, by going from 16 all the way down to 7, you'll get a much easier to roll 82 total points).

 

Interesting choice. I'm not sure how much difference there really is in roleplaying Lawful Good vs Neutral Good.

For clerics, most important to least important:

Wisdom: This is the life's blood of clerics. Start at 18, get all the tomes and boost it to 21.

Dexterity: Not getting hit is a good thing for a spell caster. Most of your attacks with a cleric should be made at a distance (using a sling). Start at 17 and use the tome to raise it to 18. Starting at 18 and raising to 19 will give you an extra +1 to hit (as will being a halfling). If you have an extra point, put it here.

Constitution: For those time when the cleric wanders into melee, you need to be able to take damage. Start at 15 and raise it to 16 with the tome -- you will gain nothing by raising it above 16 (dwarves, gnomes and halflings get bonuses to saving throws for 17 con).

Strength: The cleric is not a frontline fighter. Draw on Holy Might, Champion's Strength, and Strength of One are all spells which will temporarily increase strength for a battle. There are also Gauntlets of Ogre Power if you must melee your cleric (but then you should choose a fighter/cleric multiclass and strength would be a higher priority). That said, you still need to be strong enough to carry your stuff and wear full plate -- 14 should be your minimum. A strength of 17 is good for a cleric (either before or after reading the tome).

Charisma: This effects how people relate to you -- in particular the store owners. As mentioned before, you could rely on Imoen (or any NPC with high charisma) with the cloak to be your spokesperson. Godlike charisma get great discounts, but you can acheive that with Ajantis, Safana, or Imoen. Since I don't like min/maxing I try to keep this at 12 or higher.

Intelligence: You're going to have fairly good lore ability from your wisdom. So don't cripple it by giving yourself a low intelligence. An intelligence of 15 or greater will even add more to lore -- but I'd go for the 19 strength or 18 charisma before pushing intelligence above 12.

Starting stats (assuming a human):
S:16 D:17 Co:15 I:12 W:18 Ch:12

This requires a roll of 90. If above that, put the points in Dex (to 18), Str (to 18), then Int/Cha.

 

I wouldn't bother with your alignment, it doesn't affect anything except your starting reputation.
Alignment should be handled flexible.

If paladins were strictly lawful good at all aspects there wouldn't be any alive.

The paladin in the city doesn't act lawful good, and the NPC paladin doesn't always act that way either.

Playing a cleric will make the game easier on the long run.

You'll probably not find all tomes and it isn't neccessary to use any of it. So I wouldn't rely to much on them at character creation.

I disagree with Aldeth about the usefulness of having 10 cha instead of 3, you won't realize any difference.
If the reputation modifier and the party leader's charisma modifier added together are at least as high as the charisma modifier for 18, you'll get the positive reaction, else you won't.
For shopping you should have Imoen as party leader anyway.

Wisdom isn't that important if you prefer fighting, but I'd take at least 14 since the two level 1 bonus spells help at the beginning.
Dexterity is the most important stat. You need high strength since full plates are heavy.

If you have roleplaying problems with lowering your int or cha too much, then lower con like Aldeth suggested.

 

And controling/destroying undead.

For a non-powergaming, using-the-NPCs cleric:
Str 15
Dex 17
Con 15
Int 10
Wis 14-18
Cha 10

Imoen can talk while shopping, unless you have Ajantis or you could use Jaheira, since Imoen can't wear a helm. You'll find tomes and manuals to raise each stat at least one point.

 

Um, no. The lore of the character you lay out would be 10+level, up to the high teens at best. Imoen is going to completely smoke that throughout the entire game, with 7 + 3*level. Well, okay, you'll be a point ahead at first level (11 vs. 10), but after that she'll just rocket past you. There's no reason to try for lore with someone who isn't a mage, thief, or bard. Also, there is positively no reason at all to have INT & CHA of 12 rather than 10. There's no difference.

In BG1 it's more controlling/turning (since by the time you get high enough level to destroy, the stuff you can destroy will be replaced by much stronger versions like skeleton warriors), but the point still stands.

kuemper's stats are pretty much what I was thinking with the downgrading, except that the STR should be at 18. I can't emphasize enough how big the difference is between flat 18 STR and 19 STR. If you start with 18 STR, that Tome will make you a killer.

EDIT: @dmc:
It's 9 INT to be able to use scrolls and wands, but only in BG2 and Tutu. (I ran into that problem with a min-maxed monk.) In BG1, there is no such restriction.

[ June 08, 2006, 23:32: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

 

Dexterity is also a pretty easy stat to let go. With a priest, I wouldn't bother with more than a nine since those gloves are available so early in the game. My starting stats for a cleric, R/C, or F/C would look like more like this:

Str 18
Dex 8
Con 15
Int 9
Wis 18
Cha 10

Extra stat points would be allocated to dex first (unless no bonus would be granted by a higher dexterity) and then to intelligence (since, at least in BG2, you get better dialogue options with a higher intelligence in a few places).

 

True, but why handicap the party? Jaheira, Dynaheir...heck, even Minsc could do with a little boost in the DEX area. Using the Gauntlets on your PC when you can just start with high DEX is rather wasteful IMO.

EDIT: Though I have to say, those stats look like good ones for an NPC mod.

 

@ Fel - I thought similarly regarding T2B's post, but isn't there a substantial lore boost going from 18 wisdom to 21? It still doesn't change the fact that there's no reason to have 12 instead of 10 in both charisma and intelligence, as those are four points that could be put to better use elsewhere.

 

Yes, that is another 10, but that's only about three levels for Imoen. At 89K XP, even with such a high WIS, you'd be at 27, while Imoen would be at 31; 161K for the expansion puts you at 28 and Imoen at 37. She still wins, when you remember that you don't get two of those Tomes until rather late in the game.

 

Ummm. something to keep in mind. MOst of the best Quest rewards only need a 15 Charisma even if your Reputation is midrange and not really giving you any bonuses. I don't know if NPC's can affect these by doing the talking or not because in BG1 I tend to boost up my Charisma after my most important stat and like Dexterity and Constitution.

 

The stats I usually go for are:
Str 18
Dex 18
Con 15
Int 10
Wis 17
Cha 15
But they usually end up as:
Str 18
Dex 18
Con 15
Int 09
Wis 17
Cha 11
or:
Str 15
Dex 18
Con 15
Int 09
Wis 17
Cha 15
I can live with any of those. A Cleric can increase his strength with spells and the tomes in the game will put my stats about where I want them.