"Choice"

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Excerpt from news from one week ago in Turin:

http://www.maltastar.com/pages/msfullart.asp?an=9985

Basically, they ordered the girl under the law to have that abortion. So basically the law said the parents had the right to drag the girl to the abortion clinic and have the baby torn off her against her will.

Is that law?
Is that a judge?
Are those parents?
Where's the choice?

 

At the age of 13, she is not fit to be a mother. I think the Judge and the Parents did the right thing. At the age of 13 she would not be able to make a rational informed choice about having an abortion so I'm glad the parents have decided for her.

 

She's already displayed her inability to make the correct choices by getting pregnant at such a young age in the first place (unless she was raped). She's under the age of 16 so in reality she has no choice in the matter. Anti-abortionists will call this hypocricy by the pro-choice lobbyists but the fact is she's under 16 and therefore by law is incapable of making a rational decision in the matter.

 

That she is unfit to mother the child is no reason to order an abortion. Adoption should have also been given to her as an option if she was opposed to abortion.

 

I'm a bit torn about this issue. Abortion can be very traumatic. To some it's not a big deal but to others it can be mentally very damaging. Especially if the woman is depressed or mentally unstable allready before the abortion. So forcing it on someone is ethically questionable. Giving the baby to adoption would be the best option in this case in my opinion.

 

A woman's point of view. I have never been in the position of needing to make a decision to abort, put up for adoption or keep but have listened to many women who have had to do so.

At the moment of conception the body begins to change and the mind is part of the body. It is influenced, perhaps subtly, by the chemical changes. It is my understanding that even women who are reasonably emotional stable can be traumatized by abortion. Women who have had abortions within even the first three weeks of conception have reported definite reactions after an abortion. The process of creating a new life is cut off and the body must adjust now to this change.

Whether the girl is at 13 fit to be a mother is a moot question. Some women are fit to be mothers from an early age and others will never be fit. The girl would have a difficult time supporting the child without help from others.

I certainly would have preferred that she be given other choices. She is the one who has to live with the decision for the rest of her life.

 

It's good that we can decide to force someone to do something if we think it's good for them. That makes me happy. Hopefully, someday that kind of attitude will become more common and we'll be able to take the trouble of decision-making entirely out of minors' hands. They don't really need it - I mean, it's just their life.

 

Let's be fair. 13 year olds make a lot of stupid choices. Left to their own devices, most 13 year olds I've met aren't exactly going to choose to go to school or act like responsible adults. Most 13 year olds I know (and have known) would spend most of their time playing video games and lurking in discussion boards rather than developing marketable job skills which will facilitate eating and sleeping under a roof if they are given a choice of what to do with their time. Minors are denied the rights granted adults for a reason. They don't normally make adult choices, so they don't deserve adult rights and responsibilities.

 

I have seen but one post suggesting that forcing a 13 year old to abort her child was appropriate. Terrible as it may be, this girl's parents are the ones who will be saddled with the financial burden of raising their daughter's child for the first few years of it's life, and they don't wish to take on that burden. While I don't think that they should be allowed to force an abortion, I don't think it would be fair or ethical to force them to take on a 5+ year burden on both their finances and their time because their 13 year old daughter didn't know when to say when. This issue isn't about being Pro-life or Pro-choice. It's about whether or not a 13 year old girls parents should be forced to raise a child that isn't theirs (as will be the case if their daughter is to continue to attend school as required by law).

 

I personally don't think anyone should be forced to have an abortion, regardless of age.
You can't blame the judge, who was merely enforcing a law, but maybe the law needs changing.
I surely don't know what the parents are thinking - how to alienate your own child in one easy step.

However, there has been a series on TV about young mothers, and the 13 and 14 year olds certainly did not make good parents. Adoption would have been a prefered solution.

 

I simply do not consider abortion in the same category as going to school, what to eat, should I study or play a game. To me it is obvious that both the boy and girl had no understanding or sense of responsibility since they indulged in unprotected sex but an abortion does have traumatic effects both physically and mentally.

There is much we don't know about the case but if the girl tried to commit suicide after the abortion it appears to me that she did not have proper professional counselling. Possibly other factors entered into her problems that we do not know and never will know.

Forcing the parents to raise a child they did not want is unfair both to the parents and to the child but adoption should IMO have been an alternative.

 

And what if there is nobody prepared to adopt the child? Child becomes a ward of the state. State pays for their food, education, shelter etc. so the rest of the population is stuck with the financial burden (however small it may be).

I support the parents' right to make these decisions for their daughter. If she isn't going to be criminally liable for anything then grant the people who would be ultimate powers over her.

One way or another this is a horrible situation and there is no 'correct method' way of dealing with it. Although one must ask what the boy's opinion on the matter is.

 

That's disgusting. To anyone who supports this: I hope you don't call yourself 'pro-choice'. If you do - stop - you're less 'pro-choice' than the most ardent pro-lifer.

It's incredible how society treats teenagers as second class citizens. Is there any other group of people that you're allowed to totally violate the body and rights of?

But hey - hail the glorious wisdom of the government and the parents - I'm so glad that they saw fit to totally **** up this girl's life.

 

Monty,

Be serious. A judge has no choice in enforcing applicable law. The citizens, including the parents, have a right for a verdict. The law doesn't seem unconstitutional, so it is applicable. The judge certainly saw it that way, else he wouldn't have spoken the verdict the way he did, and probably he also doesn't see a reason to step down only because you don't like his verdict.

Drew said something quite sensible:

That's why a kid is in the parent's care, and exercise the kids rights for the kid. The kid can cry and scream all it wants - it doesn't take away the parent's legal right and obligation to make the decisions for her. My impression was that Italian family law is pretty paternalistic. And in this point they are not making a choice for the kid, but invoke an emergency justification to justify abortion to not have the kid have a child. If both parents are working the idea to have to care for an extra child and probably lose one income is an economical nightmare, especially when there are trifles like repaying mortages are to be considered.

Sadly, the relationship between parents and daughter will be pretty much screwed up after that, as it seems the daughter insists in having her child. As Nakia lined out, an abortion can be traumatic anyway, for a forced one that's guaranteed. There will be more trouble between them.

Still, good for the girl she's from Torino and not Sicily, I strongly prefer abortions over honor killings as a solution to unwanted teenage pregnancies.

 

I guess it depends on whether the 13 year-old can be considered mature enough to make such a responsible decision. I think she wasn't. Yeah, it sounds hypocritical - but in many countries 13 year olds can't marry either, nor choose to become legally separated from her parents. I don't mind the government interfering then, and I can't mind it now. However, it might be good if she goes to see a councilor first and that decides if she should have the baby or not.

 

The girl was very stupid, but forcing an abortion is just sick.

 

Quite frankly I see this as equivalent to rape in how screwed up it is - that it's parental and government sanctioned only makes it worse.

Keeping that in mind - I really feel like punching some of you in the face. What the hell is wrong with you that you could feel that this was a justified, humane decision?

The Shaman: 13 year olds can't marry generally - but this is far more like if the government told the parents that they could force her to marry someone that she was opposed to. Not letting people marry is restrictive - but is a whole different thing than forcing someone to do something.

 

@Aik: It is, but consider it this way: forbidding someone to marry under 13 means you have to break up any such marriage regardless of what the couple thinks of that. The law itself may not have the clause, but it is implied - the state has full right to interfere in anything that is illegal by law, and this right does not discriminate between drug traficking or child pregnancy.

Okay, I do think that forcing the abortion is controversial... but in this case, I don't know if there is a better solution. At least, unless the boyfriend's parents would be willing to support the child.