1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Building a Wiz/Rogue hybrid...help!

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights (Classic)' started by Faraaz, May 7, 2006.

  1. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    As of the 1.67 patch for NWN, Evard's Black Tentacles has become an uber spell. I don't have the link for the original discussion of this on the Bioware Forums, but the damage caused by EBT is unavoidable, bypasses Spell Resistance, and the check for the spell is a grapple check, instead of a pseudo attack roll. Again, apologies but I don't have the exact details on me at the moment. However, it can safely be said that as of now, EBT is the new lvl 4 IGMS!! :D Now, really cool effects of this spell:
    a) Small creatures are IMMUNE to this spell (halflings and gnomes rejoice!)
    b) Failed save causes paralysis

    Now, I have verified all of the above by trying out a build called the Gnomish Mechanic (Wiz 35/Ftr 2/Rog 3) which was amazingly powerful! Most of the time when I ran out of spells, I was pummeling enemies with Enserric the dagger, because they were just paralysed all the time anyway! Why bother casting spells? This got me thinking about a Wizard/Rogue (or Assassin) multiclass build which actively USED high EBT DCs and Sneak Attack to devastating effect. Here's what I've got so far:

    * He'll be very heavy on Wiz levels so that I get heaps of spell slots and high level spells to effectively deal with sneak/paralysis immune mobs.

    * He will NOT go the high Dex route, preferring to invest ability points in INT for higher spell DCs which are effectively what we need to get the paralysis from EBT happening. It doesn't hurt with the other spells either! :p

    * Again, with the whole not going high Dex thing, I will obviously not be getting Epic Dodge or Self Concealment either. Mostly because, as I mentioned earlier, I've got a bushel load of spells and I have damage shields. They're a lot more reliable and Epic Dodge would just be counter productive, and extremely expensive at that.

    Unfortunately, that's about how far I got with the concept. Now I have a few questions for you guys regarding this character,

    The following points deal with class choice, Rogue vs. Assassin:

    1) Death Attack vs. Sneak Attack, which would be better for this build? I've got stacks of INT and will have about 13 lvls of Assassin/Rogue. Would the Paralysis DC for my normal sneak attacks be good enough to warrant picking Assassin over Rogue?

    2) I want this build to have Crippling Strike. Do Assassins get Crippling Strike? 13 lvls of Rogue gets me Crippling Strike, all the Uncanny Dodge feats as well as Improved Evasion which is great...and all the spell like abilities of the Assassin I can cast as arcane spells anyway. Would it be possible for me to accomplish the same with an Assassin?

    3) Does the epic feat Imp. Sneak Attack work with JUST death attacks? I read somewhere that the feat was bugged and wouldn't work correctly unless you had SOME normal sneak attack instead of JUST death attack. Is this true? I want to take Imp. Sneak Attack feats to supplement my 8d6 sneak attack bonus. How would the leveling work for this to happen? Would I have to take Rogue/Assassin levels post-epic?

    Now, apart from the whole Rogue vs. Assassin thing...

    4) How many WIZ levels will be appropriate for this sort of character? I will be needing a minimum of 13 levels in either Rogue or Assassin, which means the upper limit is 27 for WIZ. Should I keep it this way or can I go heavier on Rogue? Remember that this is a Wizard who can sneak attack, not a Rogue who can cast spells...

    5) Is it recommended to get 1 lvl of Shadowdancer for HiPS with this build? I'll have Invisibility, Darkness, Evard's Black Tentacles' paralysis effect, Improved Invisibility...and worst comes to worst, Greater Sanctuary for quick getaways. Since I've got so many options to supplement my sneak attacks, is HiPS redundant in this scenario? Or would it always be nice to have it as a backup? Usually I would stick a level of SD in there without thinking twice about it...but this build is going to be VERY strained for feats and I just don't think I can afford to blow 2 slots on Dodge and Mobility, both of which are unnecessary for this build. (I'm going to be maxing out Tumble) However, I still want your opinion on this...HiPS - Worth it or not?

    6) And I almost forgot about this...which race should I go with? Gnome or Halfling? Both seem to be good...Halflings get a bonus to Dex (meh...) and Gnomes get a bonus to CON (Wow!). Halflings get Rogue as favored class, but Gnomes get Wizard...non-issue as the those two are the only base classes I'm going to have and prestige classes don't apply for XP penalties anyway. Halflings DO get bonuses to saving throws which is good though. Bah! I can't decide!! Which race is better? Remember, it HAS to be one of the two...it can't be any medium or larger sized race since I'd get nuked by my own EBT spells...

    What d'you reckon? Will this build be any good? Or will it end up as a jack of all trades, master of none?
     
  2. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,815
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Why rogue if you want no DEX route? Go single class or take fighter levels or just one monk level or perhaps rogue levels for Evasion and skill points only. ;)
     
  3. Taza

    Taza Weird Modmaker Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    25
    He wants the Sneak Attack and Crippling Strike to be used in a combination with Evard's Black Tentacles.
     
  4. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well...after looking around a bit, I went and built this in the PRC with the Arcane Trickster Prestige class!!

    I built him as a Wiz 6/Rog 5/Arcane Trickster 29.

    Here's a few points that I can remember OTOH:
    Race - Illithid
    End INT approx 42 (give or take a Great INT feat)
    21d6 Sneak Attack
    Epic Spell Focus Enchantment
    Epic Spell Focus Necromancy
    Epic Spell Penetration
    Epic Skill Focus : Spellcraft

    Great fun to play!! I'm running him through HoTU at the moment, and I just got myself Epic Spell Focus Enchantment and Necromancy...he is running through enemies like they're nothing!!

    Ray of Enfeeblement + Bigby's Forceful Hand -> As many Sneak Attacks as you want for [caster level] rounds!!

    Empowered Negative Energy bursts when stacked on casters KILL!!! I've had enemies with huge HPs go down from the strength drain while health was still at Badly Wounded!!

    Did you know that any Hold/Daze/Blind spell effect gives you sneak attacks against that enemy? Hold Person/Animal is my favourite spell at the moment, as is Mass Blindness/Deafness (I picked up Spell Focus Illusion as well...)

    What this means is that my character is a weird debilitating wizard who can't cast direct damage spells for nuts (well...apart from IGMS) and relies on incapacitating enemies and then taking them down with Sneak Attacks!! Oh and my end BAB with buffs was around 40 with 4 attacks per round while hasted...

    I love the PRC!
     
  5. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,354
    Likes Received:
    99
    Hang on, what's an Arcane Trickster? I've never heard of that.
     
  6. Taza

    Taza Weird Modmaker Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    25
  7. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,354
    Likes Received:
    99
    What? There are MORE prestige classes? Cool! That sounds like a great reason to play NWN again! Once I have finished my current IWD2 game.
     
  8. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    @Harbourboy: Yeah...there's like a HUNDRED more...not to mention a couple of dozen more base classes like the Brawler, Corrupter, Psions etc...

    Yeah thats right, they've implemented 3.5 Ed Psionics in there as well...its incredible.

    And the SPELLS!!!! Insanity...permanent Confuse on target! Lower Resistance at lvl 4!! Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion at lvl 7!! The last one's my favourite...instant escape spell...

    Ah yeah...if you haven't tried it, give it a go. Just be warned that it can cause severe lags in your game...I'm having a fair few problems with that at the moment.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.