Big Love

Remove all ads!

HBO has a new mini-series on called Big Love.

The show's main characters are Mormon polygamists. I don't have any particular interest in the show and have never watched it, so I cannot comment on the details. However, I do know a couple of people who have watched the show, and all of them seem to hold to the belief that most Mormons still engage in polygamy. As has been repeated numerous times on this board by Gnarff and others, official Mormon doctrine has banned polygamy since Utah gained statehood about a century ago. That is not to say that there aren't still radical fractions of Mormonism out there that still practice polygamy, but there numbers represent a small fraction of Mormons in the world.

I'm not sure if I agree with the entire show though, because it seems like that they are deliberately misrepresenting a religion in the show. As I mentioned, it appears that many people believe that Mormons still practice polygamy, and this show appears to just reinforce that misconception and stereotype.

Is it ever justifiable to misrepresent something as important to people as their religion? Would there be public outcry if we had a show that stereotyped all Muslims as religious fanatics willing to become suicide bombers to go to Allah? Again, it's not that there aren't people like that in the world, but once again they represent a small subset of the population as a whole. Would there be public outcry if we had a show that depicted all Catholic priests as child molesters, just because a small percentage of them have been convicted of this crime?

The danger I see in this is that the show perpetuates a myth. It doesn't matter that less than 1% of people who classify themselves as Mormon practice polygamy. If the perception of the general public is that all or most Mormons do this, then Mormons will still bear this stigma regardless of the truth of the matter. The myth becomes reality to the public at large. I also have heard many jokes regarding the sexual choices of Catholic priests. And I know more than a few people who classify all Arabs (never mind that not all Arabs are Muslims nor all Muslims are Arabs) as religious fanatics. Yet, if there were a show depicting a religion in this way, I think there would be some virulent reactions by the public. Obviously, you can justify producing this show under the 1st Amendment, but is it right? Or, to make this question apply to everyone (as not everyone is religious), would you be angry if there was a show that misrepresented something that was very important to you, and characterized it in a very bad light?

 

Since when did Hollywood concern itself about facts? For that matter, even documentaries are more concerned about entertainment than information (case in point Fahrenheit 9/11). It's all about ratings.

My great-great-grandfather was a polygamist. He was required to divorce all but one of his wives in ~1890 or be excommunicated (and turned over to the federal authorities). One item, which I doubt is in the show, is most first wives chose subsequent mates for their husbands. My G-G-GF's first wife chose all his other wives for him. That was extremely common (and considered the correct way to it). Polygamy was considered a 'calling' which means a high ranking church official had to give a man approval to have multiple wives -- the church approach the man, a man did not ask the church for permission to practise polygamy (such requests were nearly always turned down). Practising polygamy without the church's permission was an excommunicatable offence.

Polygamy is instant grounds for excommunication in the Mormon church today (and has been since the 1890's). However, there are several "offshoots" of the Mormon church that still follow the practise -- in fact, one of the sects has a leader who just got promoted to the FBI's ten most wanted list.

Polygamy still happens, just not in the 'official' Mormon church.

I don't have cable, so I don't get HBO. I doubt I would watch Big Love -- I'm quite certain it would just piss me off... just as many of these other pseudo-realistic shows do.

 

I have seen the show. They aren't saying they are Mormon polygamists. They talk about Mormonism banning polygamy. The family is an offshoot of a separatist cult that followed a "prophet" that okayed polygamy in I guess the 1970's or 1980's. The cult is on a remote compound and shown to be essentially rotten. The main character was abandoned by polygamists as a teenager because the polygamists didn't want him around as competition. The cult engages in all sorts of nasty and disturbing behavior.

And, the cult quite clearly isn't Mormon as evidenced by the opening statement that was included after protests, the fact that the Mormon characters on the show state the official Mormon position, the fact that the family is scared of the Mormon neighbors finding out they're polygamists and the effect it would have on business as all Mormons boycotted their store, etc.

The entire point of the show is that polygamy is illegal and not accepted by the Mormon church so they all live in separate houses and live a life of deceit.

I believe that if you had ever seen the show you wouldn't have the concerns you have.

Edit - to T2Bruno - the show does show the wives input in selecting a wife. In the last episode the wives of one polygamist "black balled" a potential wife and were "ganging up" on the husband for having begun to consider her. I don't think the show does what you guys are saying based on the approximate 4 or 5 episodes I've seen.

 

Yes, I would be angry if something important to me was misrepresented on a TV Show, fiction or non-fiction.


As T2Bruno said TV is entertainment and ratings are all that count. Unfortunately, it seems that few TV Executives have any sense of responsibility.

 

@Laches - it appears the people who I spoke with were misinformed about the show (which is odd considering they were the ones watching it). I took their comments at face value, as I didn't watch the show myself.

That having been said, this is still a topic worthy of discussion. As far as I can tell, most people do believe that Mormons practice polygamy, and as such, the myth is perpetuated. Facts are irrelevant when people believe otherwise.

@T2B - I agree that the point of fictional TV shows is entertainment in order to get higher ratings. However, it is still possible to get angry with shows that hit a little too close to home, especially regarding religion. That is because sometimes it starts to blur the fiction/non-fiction line. You still know that it's fiction, but you think it's fiction based on fact. To use a contrarian example, people don't get ticked off watching CSI, because most people aren't criminals, and therefore they aren't like the people being depicted on the show (even though as a chemist I find the techniques employed ludicrous). Crimes are real. Portrarying a crime is fiction, but they are based on something that really happens. The only difference is we can disconnect ourselves from what is happening because we aren't criminals. The myth only turns into perceived reality when we think there are real people living like the fictionalized characters.

 

Thanks, Laches.

I must admit, the google ad on this page is a riot. LDS Clothing and Gifts -- LOL.

It's good that the show is remaining somewhat close to real life. There is actually a huge problem in St George Utah where the polygamist sects are abandoning their 12-14 year-old boy found 'unworthy' of remaining in the sect. These leaders need to be hunted down and castrated.

 

Adding to what Laches said: unless I misunderstood the scene (possible, since I was just passing through while it was on), a Mormon woman explicitly states that A: she thinks the polygamists are, well, polygamists and B: polygamy is "against the church" and immoral and so on.

Assuming I understood that correctly, anyone getting "Mormons are still polygamists" from watching the show is, ah, an idiot.

 

... or just the average American TV addict. After all, the networks gear most shows for an 8th grade education (IIRC).

 

I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive.

 

No. In fact, as Aldeth has pointed out, such misrepresentations foster many problems faced in society.

There must have been some serious editting from the version that i read about in the newspaper. It almost talked in that article as if the Church actually acknowledged their relationship but the law didn't.

They'd get turned in to the authorities! The Church actually teaches us to support and sustain the law and respect public authorities.

I think the difference is that you have more of an understanding of the techniques they use than we would. Most of us don't have that knowledge. But most people do understand that people don't like it when their religion is mocked, and many outside the church would recognize this as such a mockery.

Don't get me wrong, I could see where there would be opportunities for drama and comedy in such a setting, but the misrepresentation of the Church as a whole is the biggest problem I see. And where people are cognitively lazy, they may take the premise of the show to be more realistic than it really is. Heck, most sitcoms are more realistic than "reality TV"...

 

I would like to remind and point out that many people who have a problem with old-Mormon-style polygamy, have no problem with non-exclusive casual relationships.

This is particularly true of many Catholic trends, as well as some Protestant trends. For example, marriage without cheating is preached, sex with non-spouse before or during or after marriage is condemned, but non-sexual romantic relationships are often encouraged. It's a deeply ingrained thing and even my pwning that sort of thinking over three pages of theologico-philosophico-canonical babbling (pwnage being admitted by pwnees) didn't make people drop it last time I had to deal with it. I don't know about those Protestant denominations which don't ban premarital sex, how they approach open relationships which aren't marriage (for all I know, they don't believe in open marriage, but I can't be sure). I think for many people, it's like you can sleep with anyone you want, forming "informal relationships" as you like, so long as you haven't "promised monogamy" to someone.

And I wouldn't say polygamy is worse than having several casual sexual partners.

 

Just to be sure, are you only saying it isn't worse and not implying that it's better? The only real difference is in case #1 you're married to all of them, and in case #2, you're not. To me, if you are against non-monogomous relationships, the two would appear to be equally bad.

To me, polyamy and having multiple sexual partners is equally bad, and both are worse than having more than one sexual partner over the course of one's life time, if they are sepearated from each other by time (so at any one time the relationship is exclusive). For example, I don't have a problem with someone who gets married, gets divorced and then gets married again to someone else. To me, that's still monogamous, as they weren't having sex with people that wasn't their spouse while they were married.

 

The show doesn't misrepresent the Mormon Church. I've seen a number of episodes. I understand that you read about one episode in a newspaper but I'd recommend you sitting down and watching the first season yourself if you have concerns. The first season is almost complete and then they'll be on DVD in a few months. That way you can actually see the show and make a judgment. My judgment is that the show is about a main character who was thrown out from a cult and that it has many scenes that makes clear the Mormon Church doesn't officially approve of the practice. Once you get a chance to see it maybe you'll have a different judgment, *shrug.

More broadly, I believe more people know now that Mormons do not support polygamy because of the show than did before the show. Even if the show does portray something incorrectly, the debate it fostered caused all sorts of people to become aware of something that they may not have otherwise been aware of. Just as in this thread, only I and one other person have apparently ever seen the show but everyone here is aware of the debate becuase of the show and they know now if they didn't before that the modern Mormon church officially disapproves of the practice of polygamy. That's good and pretty much why JS Mills didn't think we should prohibit any speech.

And, on polygamy, I think it is conceptually fine personally. Marriage is a contract. If you want to have a contract with more than one person I don't care so long as it is freely entered into and you aren't doing harm to someone else.

Your mileage may vary.

 

Actually my out when someone makes a joke about polygamy and me participating int it is to point out that I'm having enougfh trouble finding a first wife...

 

I just find the concept of polygamy baffling. As Gnarff rightly points out, most men have enough trouble keeping one woman content. I can only imagine the difficulty rises exponentially as more wives beyond the first are added into the equation.

 

Why assume it is a man with mutliple wives? And perhaps it would be difficult but people choose to do all sorts of difficult things all the time - like get married. As long as it is their free choice, *shrug.

(Polygamy is marriage to more than one person at one time. Polygyny is one man multiple wives. Polyandry is one wife mutliple men. And then there could be some grouping of the above. They are all polygamy.)

Contract feminists argue may argue that polygamy should be accepted so they're thinking of something different from the stereotype of one man and 10 14 year old girls.

 

Well, because in the topic we are discussing:

1. Big Love has one man with three wives.
2. Polygamy in the extreme Mormon Church is one man with multiple wives (despite you showing me that the people in the show aren't Mormons).
3. Throughout history, societies that have one man with multiple wives outnumber the ones having one woman with multiple husbands many times over.

 

They would appear so, or perhaps the multiple casual relationships could even appear better, standing for only the person's weakness, rather than a belief in polygamy, polyamory, whatever. However, in case of polygamy, in most cases it isn't really a crowd of wives.

I have a problem with divorce, especially in case of valid sacramental marriages (the latter case my objection is absolute). I think some people could say polygamy is better than divorce and in some cases it might hold merit from a practical point of view (the first spouse doesn't get sent away and left on her own), but I would need much more caffeine to consider the moral aspect...

I have a moon-sized problem with time-limited relationships, as well, even if the limit isn't determined but simply an end is foreseen.

 

We're getting a little here, but I have to ask. Aren't most people you date in your teenaged years time-limited? You may not foresee a specific end point to your relationship, but very few people I know actually expect to marry to first girl they ever go on a date with.

 

You don't expect to marry the girl or boy in the future as a matter of realism. Not as a matter of picking him or her up for some a month or two of fun (that is already excluding the possibility of long-term because you know you don't like the person enough or can't put up with some habits in the long run, or don't want to tangle yourself up in longterm), which would be a selfish act and probably even classifiable as evil in some circumstances. Before you ask, I have a huge problem with non-exclusive dating, as well.