BGII: ToB - A mission pack?

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Before I start getting angry, I would like to say that BGII: ToB is a great game.

But not everything is perfect (except for BGII: SoA)...

BGII: ToB is not a continuation of the Bhaalspawn saga, but a mission pack for BGII: SoA. Why?

Here are some of the reasons:

1. It contains NO non-main-plot related areas like BGII: SoA do (ie. Trademeet, Umar Hills, etc.).

2. There is allmost no party-talk (ie. romance-chat, PC <-> NPC, NPC <-> NPC (ie. Imoen <-> Minsc: Imoen wants a hamster)).

3. No point-of-no-return actions like in BGII: SoA (ie. leaving Brunwald after being at Spellhold, you can't go back to Brunwald once you've left).

4. The Overall Map is too small, considering it is in the land of Thetyr, that is MUCH larger than the small areas you can visit.

5. Only about 10 sub-quests, unlikr the about 50 subquests in BGII: SoA.

6. No free-action, you are litteraly tied to only ONE way of solwing the matter, untill the end that is. Only place where you can choose a path to take is when you meet Saemon Havarian (after talking to Elminster).

7. And I bet there are even more "errors" to come. If you look closely.

And I know, that most of you would say things like:
"What about the funding then? It ain't cheap to produce a game."
OR
"The release-date for BGII: ToB would be much later."

This is true, but now that Bioware have done SO much for D&D, and put so much money in both BG and BG: SoA, then I think they could have waited another year with the release, and then make the final part of the BG-saga even better and bigger...

Well that was my HO, hope that someone out there agrees with me.
Also if the new standard for Bioware games is set to be like BGII: ToB, then I don't think that I would even consider buying Neverwinter Nights... Unless they change the standard back to BGII: SoA.

[This message has been edited by Rathan (edited April 26, 2002).]

 

Fool.
Moron.
Imbecile.

TOB IS an expansion pack for SOA. Next time, look at the box of the game you're buying and read the words there.

[No personal attacks please - BTA]

[This message has been edited by Blackthorne TA (edited April 27, 2002).]

 

Let me just give you the requirements for an expansion pack. It have to do the following (YES/NO states if this is included in BGII: ToB):
Add new areas = YES
Enhance graphic = NO
Continue story-line = YES
Enhance sound = NO
Finish main story = NO (Bhaal essence not destroyed, someone can aquire it for him/herself)
Support new hardware = NO

Requirements for a mission pack:
Add new areas
Continue story-line

As you can see, BGII: ToB might be an EXPANSION PACK, but the features it includes are those of a MISSION PACK.

So please go shut the f*** up, I did not say that the game was bad, in fact I said that the game was great, but did not meet the requirements to be an EXPANSION PACK...

(Replies that in some way or the other blame me for being stupid or the like in any way, will be replied to in the same manner. Also if you don't think that what I'm saying, then you have 2 options: 1. Don't post any replies ; 2. Go check out the features of the game, and write a reply stating what you've found out)

 

Seems like you are making a pretty arbitrary distinction there and one that doesn't seem to provide any added value, IMHO.

Besides, the Bhaalspawn essence IS gone if you choose to ascend and, IIRC, the Solar states that its dispersed into irrelevance if you don't. ToB does add a variety of new graphics to the game in the form of new monsters, items, and buildings. Appropriate sounds are included as well. I was particularly appreciative of the personalization given to the demons and devils (sadly lacking from SoA). That kind of stuff in very nice if you are modding the game.

ToB also add an entire new character type (wild mage) and available NPC (Sarevok).

So, I guess I don't understand what distinction you are trying to make or what purpose it would serve.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

So what is Watcher's Keep then?

Ever tried going back to Sarudesh after going to Amkethran? I would say that would involve a 'point-of-no-return' action.

Of course there are only a few. You're making a comparison between a full game and an expansion pack. There is no way that ToB would have the same number of things as a full game, because then ijt would be a full game.

Since when has this been a requirement for an expansion pack? There is absolutely no point in creating a new engine to use for just an expansion pack.

What on earth are you talking about? The story line is finished. You can become the new god of murder, or you can reject the power. That sounds to me like a pretty definite ending.

Neverwinter Nights is going to be nothing like the BG series. The graphics are different. It uses a different rules system. It relies on new modules made by fans or Bioware. There is pretty much no way you can rationalise that statement.


[This message has been edited by Wildfire (edited April 27, 2002).]

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Wildfires elaborate and precicely formulated arguments. ToB is an expansion pack.

PS: Shura, you really have to work on your style ... the high art is to insult people without using foul language.

 

Ok, thanks for the replies so far. When i say Enhanced Graphics, then I don't meen that they should develop a new engine, only update the old one (ie. more details, support higher resolutions, etc.)

Also the area of Watcher's Keep is not part of the saga or the game, it's just a bonus area. Unlike all the other areas in both SoA and ToB I can't find anyone whom I can get a reason from as to why I should even go that area (would consider it part of the game, if one of the priests guarding the entrance actually visited me, and told me about their needs).

The number of subplots/quests actually defines how long people want to play the game, I meen, I finished ToB in about 20 hours (real time). If they had added some more subquests/plots, then the game would have lasted for a longer time.
When I think about it, then SoA took a very long time (yes Wildfire I know, it's a full game), but as for ToB the game was actually finished before you ever got started.

BTW Wildfire, if you choose to become the new god of murder, then I would agree with you that the story-line is over. But if you choose to reject it, then the Solar actually says that the essence of Bhaal shall be contained/confined at Mount Celestial. If something is only hidden away, then I would say that it should be possible for someone to actually reclaim it.

*Sigh*... Maybe it's just me being a little upset about the time it took to complete the game.

Hope I haven't insulted any hardcore fans of this game, but I would still like to say that the BG series (all together) is the best that have ever happened for the gaming-world. And even though I think that ToB have some errors, then I still like the game a LOT.

[This message has been edited by Rathan (edited April 27, 2002).]

 

You want a reason to go to Watcher's Keep?

1) You'll get lots of Experience. Experience is good.

2) You'll get lots of new, and upgradable items. Items are good.

3) You get to fight the Demogorgon, which will probably provide a nice challenge.

4) It's a fun quest with plenty of tough battles.

5) Okay, so nobody comes to ask you for help... There are lots of quest that don't start with someone telling you about their needs. Think Twisted Rune, or guarded compound.

Enough reasons for me to go.


[This message has been edited by Faragon (edited April 27, 2002).]

 

Well Faragon, I just think it odd, that these priests have so many problems and they all know, that the PC is the only one who can help them. If they know who the PC is, and they are in need of him why don't they go and find him instead of just standing still waiting?

But I have to admit that it is one of the most fun places to go.

A little error in the area however:
You can go there in SoA, and then when you get to ToB, the area is marked like you had never been there before, I think that this meens you can go there twice in the game. Maybe I should try it out...

Would be fun if TeamBG made a mod where you team up with Minsc and helps his new guild The Justice Fist...

 

Perhaps they're just lazy? I mean, if I were to meet some godchild gamer, I'd set up a new area and just wait there, because no one passes up on a new area. Every gamer explores it

It might show on the map as if you haven't been there before, but I doubt you can do the quest twice when you're game is continued in ToB after killing Irenicus.

However, if you'd import your characters and start a completely new game in Tob, you might. But that'd be sorta cheating, and besides, what's the fun in doing the same quest twice with the same party?

 

I can think of several resaons, but the best would have to be: Infernal Machine of Lum the Mad... +1 all attributes...

 

Rathan, on a few of the points (already dealt with by other posters) I'd have to disagree with your assessment.

That said, I know what you mean. ToB is definitely lacking depth when it comes to PC/NPC interaction. Don't know how many of you remember Wally the halfling Barbarian (and I'm too lazy to dig up the thread), but essentially Tjekanefir (sp?) played Wally as impolitely as possible, i.e. always choosing the rudest dialogue options. (If you can find that thread, it's a riot.) He made it through SoA with some roaringly funny stories to tell, but when he came to ToB discovered that it didn't really matter much at all what he said to people he met. Their responses were essentially the same whether you were nasty with them or not.

Of course, we must be honest with each other...the reason we seek to complain about things like this is because, admit it, we want this game to go on and on and on and on...it's not that it's over too quickly, it's that it's over period, with no sequel on the horizon..

 

Finally someone who's just a bit universal, like me. And yes, I think that the main reason I complain about these things are, that the story-line in ToB is too short...

Actually you can compare BGII: SoA with a story about a squirrel that marches out to find a nut, describing everything in detail.

And then you could compare BGII: ToB with what happens when the squirrel finds this nut, told very shortly (ie. so it ate the nut), instead of giving the details as to how it brought it back home and opened it and so on.

Well enough whining about THIS subject, gotta find something else to complain about, or even praise about.