base save bonus question

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In the manual, next to the BAB tables, is a listing of the base save bonus for each level. I was aware that each character's base saves increase as they level-up, but in this column there are two numbers listed for each level. (For example: level 10 base saves +3/+7). Why are there two numbers and what does each one indicate?

 

I think lower number indicates the worst saving throw type for the class, and higher number is the good saving throw of that particular class.

All classes have good/bad saving throws. Mages have good will, they are smart and adept at mind games, but years of studying leave them with bad reflex and fortitude saves. Rogues have good reflexes, they are masters of avoidance and acrobasy, but they are greedy with low will saves and generally are careless in their diet and nourishment:bad fortitude! Bards have good will and reflex, while clerics have good will and fortitude. Good old warrior types are only good at fortitude, they are sturdy as a rock, but that's it. Monks are so spiffy that they are good at every saving throw.

So a lvl 10 wizard/sorcerer will get a base saving throw bonus of +7 to his/her will saves, and a mere +3 for reflex/fortitude?

This gives you a better idea of which spells to throw at a given enemy? All mages/sorcerers will fall to a good Disintegrate/Finger of Death, since they suck at fortitude saves. You can charm/hold/confuse tough fighter types since they are weak against mind games. Against clerics, your best bet will be inflicting massive damage with area effect spellsr hurl a chromatic orb, they can not dodge it easily! Do not throw fireballs etc. against assasins or monks, they are good at evading them!

Hope this helps.

 

Yes it does help, thank-you. But it also leads me to another question: What happens if you multiclass? Would you get whichever bonus is highest or are they averaged?

 

The bonusses are added together.
Example: A rogue 1/wizard 6 gets the bonusses a 1st level rogue gets (+2 reflex) + the bonusses a 6th level wizard gets (+5 will, +2 reflex , +2 fortitude), that's +5 will, +4 reflex and +2 fortitude.

 

So they are added together - that should have occurred to me as that is usually the case with multiclassing stats.

Would anybody happen to know exactly which classes get the higher/lower bonus for which saves?

 

Strong saves for:

monk: all 3
fighter/ranger/paladin/barbarian: fortitude
cleric/druid: fortitude, will
rogue: reflex
bard: reflex, will
mage/sorc: will

 

Thanks, although I am surprised that the paladin doesn't also get the higher will save. That might explain why the Mindflayer Elder Brain was able to so quickly dominate him (it took a matter of seconds from when the fight began).

 

^Please note that paladins have divine grace:they get their CHA modifier (if positive) as bonus to all of their saving throws. Therefore, a paladin with 20 CHA will get +5 bonus to ALL three saving thrws, which is quite impressive. Even a single paladin lvl will give you this neat bonus, therefore, adding a single paladin lvl to sorcerer builds is a common theme. It adds massive saving throw bonuses AS sorcerers have amazing CHA scores eventually, plus all weapon feats and a d10 HD. Not bad for a level spent, IMHO.

 

I guess the reason for your paladin to get dominated was rather an unlucky roll when trying to save.
Paladins get rather good will saves since both their usually high wisdom and charisma add bonusses to will saves.
Domination shouldn't be a problem anyway if you have someone to cast "magic circle against evil" in your party, a level 3 spell even castable by paladins.

Even at the end of game the difference between good and bad class saves is only 4-5, quite low if you consider that characters get a d20 roll.
Once my party had to make fortitude saves, my paladin/fighter's bonus was 10 higher than the other party members', but he was the only one who died because he rolled a natural 1, even with 10 less bonus a rolled 2 would have been enough.

 

I guess my paladin was just unlucky then.

AFAIK Protection from Evil (and therefore Magic Circle Against Evil) does not protect against mind control spells, despite what the manual says. Numerous posts in other threads mention this as well. IMO this makes the spell significantly less useful than it would be otherwise unless one is in the habit of summoning elementals and demons.

 

protection from evil should give evil beeings penalty to hit you, and you should gain bonuses to saves against evil beeings.

If they are extraplanar evil beeings they should also be unable to attack you. And you will be immune to extraplanar evil beeings mind control.

I forgotten exactlly how this is solved in the game. I think you just got a set bonus to both saves and armor against all targets. and makes demons and elementals unable to attakc you. dunno how they solved the mind control thingy.