Bard or rogue

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I've played through twice now and I want to go through with some new characters. I can't remember, do you need a level of rogue on someone to disarm traps or can a bard handle this. Probably will multi bard with socerer or something. Can the bard get enough skill points to make it as backup rogue. Also, does single class druid make sense, I want to try for those high level shape shiftings.

 

The single class Druid is powerful but the only reason to shapeshift is to get "fast-heeling". The shapeshifted forms aren't good enough to use for meleeing. If you plan on making a powerful druid you should skip cha and int and use him like a fighter/mage. If you really love shapeshifting, make him a human andf take one monklvl. He'll still get the monks AC-bonus from wis while shapeshifted.

 

Even if you decide to forgo Hide & Move Silently you will still definately need Open Lock, Disable Device & Search. Add to that the spellcasters' skills such as Spellcraft & Concentration. I dont remember which skills are cross-class for a bard and which are not.But you are talking about a high Int charecter. It would be very hard and a hell of a waste to put all those points into Int for a Bard/Sorcerer.
Clearing traps is the main task of a rouge in this game, you cant use a backup for this.

Iirc you need 23 levels as a Druid to get all the shapes. Thus you can still include Fighter[4]/Monk[3] to that equation. He will have some very useful spells but you will still need a Cleric in your party.

 

Bards are fun, and I usually play one, but you'll need a couple of thief levels to be effective in that role, and it usually works better to give that slot to someone like a wizard who has Int. as a prime characteristic. A Bard/Thief would most likely be mediocre in both roles due to the difficulty of allocating character points effectively.

For Druid your best bet is to download Weimer's ease of use mod (available on this site) which greatly enhances both the druid's spells and his shape-changing abilities.

 

Is the shambling mound feat worth going for? Also with a bard and a druid, do you really need a cleric for extra healing. Should I add a paladin? Never liked those guys, but have not played one in this game.

 

The Druid rebalancing is actually Druid overpowering imo. Extra mage and cleric spells as well as entirely devastating shapes which you get so early in your carrer.

Of the three extra shape feats available, shambling mound is pretty much the only one which is of some use. Both Panther and Boring Beetle are inferior to the naturally available shapes. Iirc you can use it to block narrow passages and it has some damage reduction too.



Your Druid has so many offensive spells, you wont be giving him healing spells. Even your Cleric need not learn any healing spells other than the Heal and Ressurection types since shift-clicking spells for good or neutral clerics provides minor healing.
Remember your Druid does not get Raise Dead or Ressurection. Those and the restoration spells are all you need since your bard should be healing your wounds with song. Also you will be hard pressed to give the Druid Heal or Mass Heal due to the other spells at those levels.

At the end of the day, it can be done without the cleric even though it will be harder. There is nothing that says a cleric is imperitive.

Finally, ditch the pally.

 

Even with the Holy Avenger?

 

Have you kept a pally upfront and centre? And how do you think he will come out when compared to a barb/cleric build? Do you still want a major pally charecter?

The Holy Avenger will be put to little good use in the hands of a pally/sorc throwing fireballs from the rear lines.

 

Between a rogue and anything else, I would suggest anything else. Seriously, though, you don't really need more than 2 levels of Rogue, unless you're a fan of Sneak Attack damage and the level 10+ feats. Rogue(2)/Ranger(x) works like charm. Even Fighter(4)/Rogue(3)/Barbarian(3)/Ranger(3) kind of characters work out surprisingly well. Rogue(2)/Wizard(x) would be a nice alternative to the Rogue/Ranger, depending on the skills on which you want to focus. Rogue(2)/Bard(x) might also be a good idea.

 

Pair a rogue (be it thief or Bard) with any other class which can complement or benefit from their abilities. (Rogue/Wizard, Sorcerer(or Druid)/Bard... - as previously suggested)

As single classes rogues aren't as useful, sadly.

 

I've played through twice with rogue2/wizard X. Kinda wanted to try something else. Never played bard, just wanted to know if I could replace the rogue?/class? with bard. Can they handle traps, chests, etc?

 

To answer your question, General Ghoul, I've had some problems with pure bards using thief skills. For some reason, even if I give the bard some cross class skill points I can't pick locks; the pointer remains greyed out when I highlight the chest/door and nothing happens when I click. Dont know if this happens all the way through, but its a pain in the arse.

I'm using a human rogue 2/bard x at the moment in a four person party and she seems to be doing just grand. She's only char. level 3 at the moment, but when she gets some bard levels she's going to be a nifty little enchantress as well as a reasonable thief, archer, loremaster and diplomat. Scythsong's bard/druid (mentioned in more detail in another thread) is something I want to try out as well, although I'm not too sure about how many levels to allow for each class and in what order to take them. Needs some thought.

 

You might not have put points in Disable Device.

You need to put points in all three Search, Open Locks and Disable Device if you want him to be a good trap picker. Unfortunately all three are cross-class skills.
The three class skills for a bard are Hide, Move Silently and Pick Pockets. So you can see, the bard is not going to be a great class if you wish to use him to remove traps.

A non-Human Bard with 16 Int could take all three, Hide, Move Silently and Pick Pockets, at each level. But he would only be able to put a point in all three of Search, Open Locks and Disable Device every 2 levels. Add to that the requirements for Dex and Char and you really dont have a strong charecter.

Bard/Druid
If you are a Human/Half-Elf take 11 Bard levels straight and then take the rest as Druid. For other races start off as Bard (remember to take the Lingering Song feat!), then add two levels of Druid. Continue taking 2 levels alternatively till you reach Bard[11]/Druid[12].