Backstabbing

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I am using a thief for the first time (solos) and I would like to recommend it to everyone - just for the backstabbing.

I cannot believe how satisfying it is to walk up behind a mage and backstab him for 50 damage and ... end of story. (I can now understand the appeal of an assassin).

Any good backstabbing stories, tactics?

Incidently, what does move silently do?

 

How do you backstab? Wait, let me rephrase...How do you ALWAYS get it to work? I do it to my own people and commoners, but it almost NEVER works on enemies. Here's the scoop:

1) Hide in Shadows
2) Remain in shadows and walk behind pincushion
3) Stick it in!

I know it should say, for example something like "Jan-Backstab Quadruple damage" but usually it just says "Jan attacks x".

 

I have not had a problem.

Hide in shadows and walk behind and F2 the baddie. If you miss with your first attack then it is just a normal fight. I am solo so the baddies don't try and move etc.

There might be a restriction on which weapon you can use. I have a long sword at the moment (multi-class) which works.

 

If they move, it messes up? I am using dagger.

 

No i don't think so, it just makes it harder to get behind them.

Make yourself invisible and have a go. When I say behind, I mean right behind, touching distance.

Have you turned up the feedback level to show everything so that you can read exactly what happened.

 

Thanks for the tips, I'll try those, Mr. Happy.

 

If you're some kinda Mage/Thief try casting Mislead, unlimited backstab!

Also stock up on Potions of Invisibilty or if you're a Mage/theif just cast the spell, and backstab like crazy!

Try picking up the Cloak of Non-Detection(from Sorcerous Amon, the mage in Mencarpebblecrusher's party) which doesn't allow you to be detected(not sure if it works against true sight though).

Get those rings of invisibilty(there are two 1 from the theif in Mencar Pebblecrusher's party and 1 from the lich in the crooked crane inn) so you can have 2 extra backstabs per day, and save those potions till you need them.

Also stock up on strength potions, useful for backstabbing people with high hitpoints like Priests of Fighters.

If you're backstabbing a neutral character(with a blue ring) you can sometimes pull off another hide in shadows before everyone around him goes hostile.

Hope these help.

 

Here's how I backstab (it usually works):

1. Hide in shadows (make sure you're successful).
2. Turn off the AI. Sometimes my thief will see the enemy they're sneaking up on, and leave shadows to attack them too soon.
3. Pause the game when you're behind and next to the target.
4. Click on your weapon to attack and leave shadows (or press F2).
5. Unpause - BAM!

Check your feedback. It should tell you if you've backstabbed successfully.

Oh yes, I have never been able to backstab golems, gauths or beholders (there's probably more). I'm not sure why, but it always says "your backstab was unsuccessful for some reason" (or something like that).

Try and get some strength enhancing items if you can. An extra +3 damage due to strength is good, but when it is quadrupled into +12 for a backstab it really makes a difference.

Oh yes, you can backstab with lots of weapons - not just daggers. For example, you can backstab with a long sword, but not with an axe. Try different weapons, if you pick the wrong one the feedback will tell you "this weapon is unsuitable for backstabbing" when you attempt a backstab.

[This message has been edited by Hardcase Von Crudd (edited January 28, 2002).]

 

If your're looking for more info about thieves, this might help - it also includes a guide to backstabbing
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/thieves.php

 

As a fighter/thief, I always had a longsword as a secondary weapon for backstabbing. Otherwise, I stuck to the 2-handed sword. As a f/t, you may want to use a heavy weapon (e.g. halberd, two-handed sword), and keep a dagger, short sword, long sword, katana, or other backstabbable weapons ready.

As a thief/mage, invisibility and strength are very useful, as the former spell is infallible in most cases and you do not have to worry about skill points or shadows. The latter will improve backstab damage in the area of 9-15. When travelling with a priest, Strength of One will improve the backstab damage in the area of 12-20.

[This message has been edited by creudzfeldt-jakob (edited January 30, 2002).]

 

Whenever I backstab, usually when fighting harder monsters, I stock up on invisibility potions. I will then walk around stabbing then drinking until I've hit each enemy once. My potions will most likley be used up then, so I'll hack the weakened enemies to pieces.

 

Thieves are definitely my favourite class Almost always play a thief, or a thief mc. One thing about backstabbing is that it's completely dependent on your stealth abilities. If when the thief makes their attack they are a) seen or b) heard, then the backstab fails. To prevent either a) or b) from happening, you're thief needs to successfully hide in shadows *as well as* move silently. If either one is unsuccessful, then the backstab will fail and you'll get just the "So-and-so attacks X" feedback line. I'm not entirely sure whether Move Silently affects the backstabbing ability of invisible thieves (it does in the p&p version, but don't know whether SoA takes it into account).

On a tactics note, I find hit-and-run attacks work best with a thief. With boots of speed (or similar speed enhancing items), your thief can scout up ahead, duck into the shadows, back stab the bad-guys, run away from the pursuers, duck back into the shadows, back stab again, etc....

 

How is the damage worked out?

I have been looking at the messages and I get 2 lines e.g.

... Mandark quadruple damage ...
Mendark does 48 damage to <monster>
Mendark does 8 damage to <monster>

I take it that either strength or magic is not taken into account in the backstab.

btw a critical hit does get multipled (96 damage! to the gallal (vampire in bohdi's layer - level 3)).

 

Mind that Hendak is dualwielding, maybe it's the damage of his off-hand weapon (a dagger if I recall correctly). But this is just a guess

Besides, Hendak (lvl-6 fighter ) isn't backstabbing since he cannot backstab - he's attacking straight.

As for backstabbing damage: the damage multiplier only applies to the first attack after stepping out of shadows. And you're right, the str-damage boni are added after the multiplier since the easy availability of strength-potions would make backstabbing for fighter-thieves too powerful.

IIRC, when you have a lvl-12 @ str-17 halfling thief using a shortsword +2 for backstabbing the damage should calculate as follows:
1d6+2 (3 to 8 damage) x 4 (lvl-12 damage multiplier) = 12-32 damage, double on a critical hit (that's why I always use single weapon style) + 1 damage for str-17 = 13-33 damage.
Which actually makes me wonder - since I usually had higher damage scores with my thief I'll check that ...

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited January 30, 2002).]

 

Here's one of my fave backstabbing moments:

I had Artemis quaff a potion of Invisibility, and then had him just walk behind a Mind Flayer....

Poof!!! Guts and gore flying all over the place!

No wonder my current char is an assassin...

Ara
(Incredibly annoyed with everything)

 

Just had a further thought.

Could it be the weapon. Daystar does extra damage to undead and evil creatures, does that add in?

I will check again tonight by single wielding and see if I get the 2 lines.

 

In my opinion the backstab damage is calculated like that: weapon damage(magical enchantments bonus damage included)x backstab multiplier + strength bonus + other damage bonuses (gauntlets of weapon expertise), When Cain Shadowdancer, my level 17 assasin backstabs with a +4 short sword the damage should look like that: 38-68 (he has a girdle of hill giant strength/str: 19/). Suprisingly his average damage is about 54-67, but once he scored a 77 damage, which was not a critical hit! So the question of calculating the backstab damage still remains I think.

 

Guarded compound spoiler:
I took out the Guarded Compound last night with my m/t. I triggered the creature spawning on the lower floor, then ran back as the Balor turned on and killed everything else. Then I went behind him with the Staff of Rynn +4, and did a backstab ( rear sneak attack) for 105 points of damage - result: one dead Balor.

 

TIN-MAN, ok, once again - that's what I wrote:

-weapon damage w. enchantment bonus: 1d6+2 (3 to 8 damage)
-x 4 (lvl-12 damage multiplier) = 12-32 damage (double on a critical hit - that's why I always use single weapon style)
-1 damage for str-17 = 13-33 damage.

you wrote (I changed layout a bit):

the only new thing you added was the proficiency enhancements/ item gauntlet bonus However, I'm not sure know how they work: Since they basically improve proficiency (just like a magical weapon) their bonus could as well be added in the backstab multiplier. The gauntlets of weapon expertise add +2 on damage - resulting in hypothetical 14 additional damage if they are added before the x7 damage multiplier of a high level assassin ... certainly a difference and maybe the reason for your high damage with your last thief - who knows - at least I don't. Actually it is hard to find exact info about the backstab damage calculation - since half of the web only repeats the manual and the IEE doesn't tell anything about it.

Indeed the question for the backstab multiplier calculation isn't answered yet.

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited January 30, 2002).]

 

Ah you're right Ragusa...my mistake! I shall read all replies before adding mine next time.

Another question came to mind, and I'm sure it was discussed before, but I did not get the answer I seek. It is about hiding in shadows.

So my question is: Is it possible to hide in shadows successfully when seen by an enemy unit? Take it that you have 250% in hide in shadows...????