Assumed BG2 Party

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Given the starting dungeon in BG2, there is definitely an "assumed" BG1 party heading into BG2 - specifically, they assume you finished BG1 with Minsc, Jaheira, Imoen, Khalid and Dynaheir. All told, that's a pretty balanced party (although a bit light on divine magic) regardless of what your PC was.

So I'm trying to figure out what the "assumed" party is for BG2, and it's a bit difficult to come up with a consensus, as I can argue in favor of a great many possibilities.

I started with a couple of basic premises. Given the "assumed" BG1 party, I'm thinking that the BG2 assumed party would have to be basically good aligned. Neutrals would be OK, but you probably wouldn't take along anyone who was evil.

Secondly, anyone who was in the BG1 assumed party, would by default be in the BG2 assumed party, so Jaheira and Minsc are non-negotiable, and Imoen would get in after her retrieval. Unless your PC was a thief, you'd almost have to take Yoshimo, but he gets replaced by Imoen, so there's still two spots even taking that into account.

Aftre much internal debate, I think that one of the two remaining spots would go to Nalia, as you don't have a mage, and the other spot to Keldorn. Certainly, arguments can be made for having Anomen, Jan, or Aerie, as they can all be acquired very early, and would fulfill party needs. Some people like having two clerics, making Anomen and Aerie attractive options, some people like having two mages, making Jan and Aerie attractive options.

Just going with my "gut" feeling though, I'd imagine the game designers expected most people to head off to Spellhold with Minsc, Jaheira, Nalia, Keldorn and Yoshimo, and replace Yoshimo with Imoen after acquiring her. I think most people would take Nalia as an Imoen replacement, but due to her below average theiving abilities, her presence would requrie you take along Yoshimo. Finally, the Khalid replacement would basically have to be a tank, and I think there's more people who would rather take along a paladin like Keldorn rather than a cleric like Anomen.

Having said all that, I didn't have that assumed party my first time through. My first party had Anomen instead of Keldorn, because I got Anomen first, and he was in my party already for quite a while before I found Keldorn in the sewers.

 

What strange things you ponder in your spare time, Aldeth. Do you think there even is an intended assumed party?

 

Actually, I figured this out to my satisfaction a few months ago. Here's the logic:

BG1 party:
PC
Imoen
Khalid
Jaheira
Minsc
Dynaheir

Imoen's got the thieving skills; Khalid, Minsc, and (to a lesser extent) Jaheira can tank; Dynaheir is the primary mage, with a dualled Imoen as the backup; Jaheira's not enough for divine. Hence, a F/C PC.

BG2 party:
F/C
YoshImoen
Minsc
Jaheira
?
?

Minsc can tank, as can the PC and Jaheira to a lesser extent. Divine's covered. Still need a backup mage. OL and FT are covered long-term, but what about PP?

For secondary mage and PP, I picked Haer'Dalis. Not only was he intended to be the other female romance, but they severely mangled the Blade's abilities to overpower him. I think they meant for you to romance either him or Jaheira depending on your gender.

The last spot goes to Sarevok. The reasoning is fairly simple: They went through ****loads of trouble to flesh out all these NPCs, but they abruptly stop having their own quests when you hit ToB, right when you have a chance to redeem your brother (from CE to CG, no less). In SoA, you'd be rotating NPCs for their quest arcs, but they get dropped for Binky in ToB.

Naturally, you'd be rotating for what you're missing at the moment. Edwin, Jan, and Nalia would all likely be before Spellhold to make up for only having Haer'Dalis for arcane, and several can be put in elsewhere. You don't need much from Brynnlaw to Imoen, so you can plan for Spellhold and the Underdark with Imoen in mind. Viconia for the drow thing, maybe Korgan for taking out mind flayers (either in the Underdark or the Athkatla sewers), etc.

 

Sorry, but what do OL, FT, and PP stand for?

 

Interesting logic there Fel. I agree that with a lack of a cleric in the assumed BG1 party, it makes sense that the PC be at least part cleric. So the options would be F/C, R/C, or pure cleric. This argument is further enhanced in that you can get the +2 war hammer, +1 electrical damage very early on. Debatably the best cleric weapon in the game, and you can get it before you do the Nashkel mines.

I also like the argument that they intend for you to take Sarevok. That makes a whole lot of sense, if for no other reason that he is the ONLY new NPC in ToB. That's a pretty clear indication to me that they intend for you to take him.

However, I do not think that HD was meant as one of the assumed party. While your logic is sound, there's one small problem - HD is kind of hidden away, and it may take you quite some time to find him in your first play through when you don't know where everything is. That's why I didn't get Keldorn in my first party - I didn't find him until I did the Unseeing Eye quest, when I had already done several others, including the Umar Hills, D'Arnise Keep, Mae'Var's Guild, the Slavers and probably others. I had already developed Anomen to the point that I didn't just want to drop him. Of course, I also played a Cavalier in my first game, so I maybe I just didn't want another Paladin.

EDIT: @HB: Presumably find traps, open locks and pick pocket.

 

I think assuming Keldorn as part of your party is a bit much. As a father, I can never bring myself to take Keldorn away from his wife and children. I can't help but imagine that the game developers actually wantyou to feel guilty about bringing him along with you.

 

I agree about Haer'Dalis. I did not find him until really late in the game, and only because Splunge kept insisting that I should get the Blade. Plus, he's rubbish, so they can't have assumed that you were going to take that loser with you.

 

Minsc - in first dungeon

Jaheria - in first dungeon

Yoshi/Imoen - major plot NPC's, both in first
dungeon

Aerie - replaces Dyna as Minsc's witch, she is the first NPC you can meet outside the first dungeon (tent is two feet from where you come out)

W/TOB installed, the last slot goes to Sarevok. Without TOB, I don't think the last slot matters one bit.

[ January 05, 2006, 21:04: Message edited by: Sorun ]

 

@Drew - good point - and I agree that they want you to feel guilty.

@Sorun - hmmm... Great arguement about Aerie being the replacement witch, and the fact that you can get her almost as soon as you leave the initial dungeon.

 

I didn't get Aerie as soon as I left the dungeon. Your PC is warned not to enter the circus tent so unless you have a good RP reason for going in there (not because you think there might be good XP in there) you will bypass that tent and probably end up heading for the Copper Coronet and meeting Nalia as your next NPC.

 

My RP reason for going into the tent is that I am the son of a god, who has just killed the son of a god and escaped a horrible dungeon, and I am not afraid of a friggin tent. Also, there is a little boy outside of the tent with a mother inside. My LG character can't just leave him there.

 

My 'assumed' BG2 party:

Jaheira
Minsc
Imoen/Yoshimo
Nalia - just look at her portrait and stats. We can all agree on her Immyness

Anomen/Viconia - These 2 are interchangeable imo. Most people take Viccy as their cleric because of her high wisdom and 'exotic beauty' . Anomen's fighter weapon profs are 'missing' and he chose 2 of the better weps in-game to put points in - mace and warhammer.

PC Paladin, probably Inquisitor

I went along with who has the most banters. Why write things for people no one will bother to take in a party? I agree with Sarevok being there, too, most likely as a replacement for Minsc.

 

Hmm, this topic again... (See also here and here.)

I agree with Sorun: Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshi/Imoen, and Aerie are likely the "Canon" group, with rotating NPCs in the 6th slot in SoA, adding Sarevok in ToB. These 5 are the only joinable characters in Ch.1, and while Aerie is avoidable, it seems to me 1) she's still the most likely to be encountered first out of the dungeon, and 2) she's one of the most developed NPCs (including romance and potential conflicts or entanglements with Jaheira and HD).

In addition, these 4 (Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshi/Imoen, and Aerie) make up in themselves a balanced party: 1.5 fighter, .5 mage, 1 cleric, 1 thief with Yoshi; or 1.5 fighter, 1 mage, 1 cleric, and .5 thief with Imoen. Thus allowing whatever choice PC to work...

I agree with Fel (link above) that the Canon BG1 party is Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, and Dynaheir, due to continuity with SoA as well as story arc (especially the first three). These 5 also provide a balanced party on their own, with 2.5 fighter, 1 mage, .5 cleric, and 1 thief.

Certainly a F/C would work well in this party, but I disagree with Fel that this would be a "Canon PC" for BG1-SoA-ToB; and apparently the BoM community (link ) would agree. Out of 84 votes, no one thought a F/C was the likely class for the Child of Bhaal (the top choice was pure class Fighter, while compiling all the votes, 66% chose a class using the Fighter THAC0 progression, 54% chose a class that could cast Arcane spells, and only 11% chose a class that could cast Clerical spells)...

 

My assumed party:

PC
Minsc
Jaheira
Yoshimo/Imoen
Keldorn
Anomen

Keldorn is a good tank without a doubt, especially with carsomyr.
Anomen is a good priest after his trial.
No mage until I rescue Immy. oh well.

 

I think Aerie was meant to be assumed in the party. This leads to a few other events that confuses the issue really. You take her and depending on what your doing then a few days into having her she leads you right into Haer Dalis. So there is a storyline way to get him early on.

But more than this. You jsut lost your mage. One of the first things a new player does generally is check out everything. You don't know what's going to be thrown at you and they immediately throw a minorly difficult quest at you that gets you a mage back. Something that we probably all considered about a well rounded party our first times through. Not only does she get us our mage back but she also gives us a more well rounded Divinity portfolio for healing magic. She really seems to be your 5th assumed member from her placement and abilities as well as lead in to other events around the city.

BG1 once you got going. Honestly Jaheira was all the healer you needed and there was less in BG1 that was really worth taking other than healing spells with her for the most part.

BG2 has a lot more reasons for a healer. And particularly a healer with certain cleric only spells.

It's hard to consider ToB in any of it because it seems to change the progression of a lot of things and really more just add to what is already there than truely have anything new.

 

Alternatively, you follow my logic that the first NPC you can't help but run into after the dungeon is Nalia, who is a better mage than Aerie and therefore rounds your assumed party out slightly more completely. At that point you would have:

Minsc - Ranger
Jaheira - Fighter / Druid
Yoshimo - Bounty Hunter
Nalia - Mage / Thief

So no matter what the PC is, you already have a nicely balanced party.

 

@Bion:
Yeah, and I'm one of the people who voted for mage back when I voted six months ago, but I don't think so anymore. One wonders how it would go differently if we redid the poll...

On Aerie:
Of course you're meant to meet her right away and take her, but maybe not permanently. Think on this if you will:
You find Aerie. She leads you to Haer'Dalis. They have a little fling and break up. They can't bear seeing each other anymore. (RP it, okay?) Kick one out and comfort the other one. Friendship turns to romance...

It's entirely possible that there were actually two variations of the canon party. One for a male fighter who romances Aerie (done, BTW), and one for a female F/C who romances Haer'Dalis (or a male F/C who romances Jaheira). Sarevok still has the sixth spot after rotation, of course.

Congratulations on making me think.

 

You're so strongly directed to the CC after emerging from the 1st dungeon that I think the assumed party is : PC, Jaheira, Minsc, Yoshi/Immy, Nalia, Anomen.

I also strongly disagree that you're meant to take Sarevok. Firstly, that would mean dropping someone who completed SoA with you (and I doubt first-time players are going to be rotating their NPCs); secondly, as the villain of BG1 you shouldn't want to touch him with a 10 ft. pike; and thirdly, if you're like me, you're so tired of adversaries that keep coming back after you defeat them that you find Sarevok's reincarnation truly annoying, and tell him to get out of your hell and go find his own. I thought bringing back Sarevok at that point was the weakest plot device Bioware could possibly have used.

 

Exactly. Well said, Truper.

 

@Truper:
Yeah, first time through I thought it was pretty weak too. I even made sure he stuck around so I could send him back to Hell again. But who, I ask you, did the canon party of BG1 their first time through? I haven't even done it yet, and I've been through BG1 over a dozen times now. I would never have even considered Dynaheir (Invoker? Pfah.) at all if I hadn't found out how much fun Minsc was in BG2. In fact, I still haven't taken her, and don't plan to except for one time where I do a "canonical" BG1->ToB game.

Having played with Sarevok, it's about his redemption; you're supposed to get him to turn over a new leaf. Yoshimo too gets "rotated" in favor of Imoen, but gets redeemed post-mortem when you bring his heart to a Temple of Ilmater. Heck, someone even made a mod called 'The Longer Road', which lets you have Irenicus as an NPC. Redemption is a big theme for BG2; you even have to redeem yourself by regaining your very soul! (Imoen too.)

The real sticking point, though, is dumping someone who has literally gone to Hell and back for you. I'm not sure how a good character could possibly justify that. All I can think of is if one of them perished in the battle. *shrug*

EDIT: @HB:
Of course you're directed to the CC; everyone's directed to the CC. It's almost the center of everything Athkatla. Anomen, Edwin, Imoen, Korgan, Minsc, Nalia, and Yoshimo all go there. All the other places are NPC-specific (ex. Jaheira and the Harper's compound), but the CC covers seven.

EDIT2:
Not a bad comparison, HB. She does turn out to be your actual sister (instead of adoptive), after all.

[ January 06, 2006, 01:32: Message edited by: Felinoid ]