Another Exciting Post On Religion...

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These quotes were in a magazine column I read, and I wondered what posters here might think of them. (It was tempting to do them as a poll: Which opinion do YOU prefer?)

1): "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."--Diderot

2): "The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning."--Voltaire

3): "The Christian religion, as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world."--Bertand Russell

 

I see the first one as a basic and fundamental truth. The second is quite amusing but I dont know about it, religious people are good at reasoning, they just start from a place too bizarre for me.

Organised religion is even worse than other kinds of religion.

 

My favorite is from Sirens of Titan (Kurt Vonnegut):

If God exists, he doesn't care.

 

I actually have a quote from Voltaire that I like even better. Voltaire was an atheist, but during the time he lived, an atheist was basically considered the equivalent of a Satanist. On his deathbed and priest tried to convince Voltaire to renounce Satan and accept God so that he could receive last rites.

Voltaire's reply: "This is no time to make new enemies."

 

I find most of those statements rather offensive, but since I'm a normal, rational human being who understands that others have a right to believe what they will, I'll just say MY piece here and drop it, unlike those who get offended and either kill random people or protest outside someone else's gathering.

 

I've often heard religion referred to as just a nother form of addiction. Think about it and look at anyone you know who is serious about thier religion. I heard this in reference to a recovering alchoholic who said he's changed and found God. Traded one addiciton for another.

My favorite quote about religion is a line from a Jimmy Buffet song, "Religion's in the hands of some crazy ass people."

 

...you heard, you say...from Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels...?...

 

Elios, my favorite musical quotation about religion is from some rap group whose name escapes me: "He went looking for God and found religion instead."

Sad to say that there's a distinction between the two, but there is.

 

Depending on how you define Moral Progress, then Number three may be more accurate than you realize. If this means the legitimizing of what Religion calls sin, then it is Religion's duty to oppose "moral progress". Christianity stems from a basic morality over 2000 years old. There are people who's duty it is to preach that same morality, regardless of those who would wish it to change.

 

I can see how this is a quality feature. German bureaucracy runs along the same lines.

 

1) Free to do what ...?...Everything except choosing another king/ruler or becoming a priest ? Nice freedom...to kill...

2)Only in his mind...but this is partially true...you can't fully understand what you believe in...

3)"Moral progress" ? What is that ? Changing your moral values every week ?

 

What is it with fundies and elipses? Between...every...other...word...we...get...these...nonsensical...rows...of...little...dots...

Arendil:

You seem to commit fallacies with impossible frequency. ABove you commit the false dichotomy by implying only two options, between dogmatic religious observance and what you guys often refer to as "moral relativism".

I am an atheist with a very strong moral code and, like YOUR moral code, mine is built on subjective personal experience and knowledge.
I do not randomly decide to do an "Extreme Makeover" with my morals every week, thinking rape is bad one week then good the next or some such nonsense.
But that is exactly how you characterise your ideologiscal opponents.

You also regularly engage in creation of strawmen, personal attacks, etc.


EDIT: The 3 quotes in the OP are nice, as was Aldeth's offering. IF you want to see the absolute best collection of quotes about religion/theism/etc. on the net, then go to www.positiveatheism.org/ and click on the "Quotes" section. It is massive, referenced and well researched.

My current favorites:


"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930


"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." - Voltaire


"If Heaven exists, then God has some explaining to do." - Robert DeNiro, appearing on Inside the Actor's Studio, responding to the question asked by host James Lipton; "If Heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive?".

[ June 16, 2005, 17:16: Message edited by: RuneQuester ]

 

Very funny...could you point where ?

Prove it.

Where ? Somehow I can't remember...a quote will be handy...

Total Either quote my posts that do that, prove that I do that "regularly", or apologize.

Not to mention that your last post is exactly what you accuse me of...and maybe you should learn meaning of a question mark ("?")...

 

How does a person 'prove' a moral code on line? That sounds more like an attack than a request. Of course 'fallacies with impossible frequency' is a bit inflammatory, too.

The vast majority of people within the United States have the same moral code (which is the same moral code that most Europeans have -- it's amazing how much the Catholic church has influenced society). It's taught via schools and our legal system to everyone. There are a few who take exception to bits and pieces of the moral code (and they come from all backgrounds, religious or not) -- and a very few who are entirely amoral (they also come from both religious and non-religious backgrounds).

The Incarnations of Immortality is a good fantasy series by Piers Anthony. The first book, On a Pale Horse, is the story of the Incarnation of Death. He goes about collecting souls and helping them get to their proper place (heaven, purgatory, hell, etc.). At one point he arrives to collect the soul of an athiest, death reaches out to take the soul after the individual dies and the soul crumbles to dust in his hands. I always though that was an interesting image.

 

Well, Arendil, we have a freaky little thing here called "context". The above quote is what RuneQuester is referring to. Maybe we could ask RuneQuester to type a bit more slowly so that you can follow his line of thought - like we others are able to do?

On moral codes: has it ever occurred to you (you as in "all of you") that you don't adopt a certain moral code (Don't kill, don't steal, that kind of thing) because you think that it is given by god, but that you rather follow a certain religion because you feel that the moral code advocated there is congruent to your views? The problems always start when you have to buy the complete package and are not allowed to distinguish between "Don't Steal" and "Don't commit blasphemy" anymore.

 

Darkthrone, you refer to something that is obvious to you, maybe to RuneQuester and others here as well. But I don't see why that should be obvious to everyone, unless you prove it without doubt. I don't see any "context" here, and RQ's post consist of few statements (some inflammatory...), but none is obvious to me, or even make sense, so I ask. I can't understand how he made all that from my few questions...
Yes, I'm playing a strange role here, a sceptical (to atheism) catholic.

 

OK, let's just give each other a big friendly hug like the grown up sceptics all over the world are supposed to do.

Now everyone own up to whether or not you understood what RuneQuester meant - so I can prove it to Arendil. Make me a happy young man, right?

 

...ah...joys of uncertainty... ...

 

I'm sorry, did I miss anything? I had to go get some popcorn.