Animal Cruelty as Entertainment (Rodeos, Bullfights, etc.)

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I've grown up around rodeos my whole life and have always had a problem with them, though I often found it difficult to verbalize why. But I read a post on one of my favorite blogs today that framed the arguement in such excellent terms that I thought I'd post it here to begin a discussion.

Emphasis mine (because that, to me, kind of sums it up as far as I'm concerned). As far as I know, we've never covered rodeos here before. So I thought this would be an interesting topic here for a change.

I think it's only inevitable that discussing bull fights and shows like "Fear Factor" will come into play here, so they are welcome. I'd especially like to hear from pro-rodeo (etc.) people.

 

I have never been to a rodeo, but the whole thing does sound pretty silly.

 

There's this rodeo crap. And that thing they still do in Spain (or some other place) where they set a bull loose in the streets, seemingly for the laugh. Plus the bullfighting they still do there. It all wants stopping, it's cruel.

 

That pretty much sums it up for me also.

About bullfights; WTF is the idea in stabbing a bull with a stick, shaking a red napkin and wearing a fruity outfit. Is that supposed to be manly?

Got to say I couldn't help laughing in the part: "That's some real cave-man sh!t"

[ October 30, 2006, 20:21: Message edited by: Trellheim ]

 

I really never thought about this, but after reading DR's comments I have to agree. While I visited many areas of the country, the only states I've ever lived in are Pennsylvania, New York, and now Maryland. None of the three are exactly hotbeds of rodeo culture, and I can honestly that I have never heard of an upcoming rodeo event anywhere by where I live. So for me it's kind of out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

 

I don't like these so-called sports. I don't like people hunting wild animals too. I hope one day wild animals establish a greater civilization than us, find how to make rifles and start hunting these stupid humans.

 

Bullfights, so gone. Rodeos can stay, though. Why? Because it's giving the horse or bull a chance to harm a human. How often do they get that? Putting them in a ring with a guy that's retarded enough to try to ride them, and then saying "If you can get him off your back, you can trample him!" Even with the precautions they take to minimze the risk, rodeo riders are still injured regularly, and even occasionally killed. Yeah, you get about the same in bullfights, but there it's a matter of "kill or be killed". In a bullfight, if the animal loses it dies; in a rodeo, if the animal loses it gets to try again. Though now I have to wonder what they do with the rodeo 'winners'...

 

The thing about bullfights is that they aren't even fair. The bull is worn out and exhausted - and mortally wounded - before the bullfighter even steps into the ring. The matador then toys with the disoriented bull (ala making him charge the red cape) to rev up the crowd and then finally delivers the killing stroke. It's an absolute joke.

That's the biggest misconception I think many people have about bullfighting, is that it's even remotely fair. The crowd wants the heroic matador to win, so they stack the deck in his favor. Even if a bull is somehow strong enough to overpower the matador and even kill him, the bull is immediately shot. Come on.

I can respect the cultural significance of the sport of bullfighting in Spain, and to a lesser degree, Mexico and Portugal. But there are many barbaric sporting events that have gone the way of the dodo as the society evolved. I'm surprised a country like Spain still seems determined to keep this tradition going.

@ Fel

That is an interesting (and funny) angle to see rodeos in. I'm sure that comes as small consolation to the bulls, though. I've heard many a rodeo fans tell me "the bulls have fans, too. Some of the bulls become famous and work rodeo circuits for years, building up their legends. If a cowboy can break a really tough bull, it's a great thing." I think this is the justification a lot of rodeo fans use to distance themselves from the idea that they're actually engaging in animal cruelty. Like the bulls keep a friggin' trophy shelf in their pens or something. Tools.

 

Really? The way I'd heard it is that the matador has to inflict all the wounds. Basically they'd have a bundle of spears that they stick in the bull one by one on each pass. And then when it gets exhausted from those wounds, the matador finishes it off.

And even that's pretty cruel when they're using a known weakness of the bull to kill it easily and without much risk. Stacking the deck even farther...why not just tie it up and let the vultures peck at it while it's still alive?

You win, you die, you lose, you die. Sounds like Saw. Just put a bullet in its brain in the first place and save yourself the delusion.

Aye. And for the record, I'm certainly not a rodeo fan; on the boring scale it's wedged between NASCAR and golf.

 

Yeah, I didn't think you were. I'm with you on NASCAR - I will never understand the fascination with watching rednecks in cars drive in circles for two hours...but I do enjoy golf.

As for wearing out the bulls - that may be the case in some bullfights. But from what I've been told, a fully rested, fully aware, fully healthy bull rarely goes up against the matador. Mainly because they're smarter animals than people give them credit for. A healthy bull generally knows the difference between a flap of red cloth and the jackass flapping it.

But that's my understanding - any Spaniards here who could clarify? Sydax perhaps?

 

Rodeo stuff always reminds me of my redneck Aussie cousins who live in the outback and drink XXXX and beat their wives...

 

I've known many guys who competed in a rodeo. It has very solid background in 'Old West' traditions. Roping calves, breaking horses, skill at riding, ... The only event which is pure showmanship is the bull riding (which is insane IMO).

I believe more cowboys are hurt than animals. Several rodeo competitors are killed every year. As they say, sometimes the bull wins.

I do not believe rodeo is a good example of cruelty to animals (of course, PETA would disagree).

 

I had nothing against the rodeo at first (bunch of rednecks having fun in their own strange way) until I watched a documentry on how the bulls are prepared.

 

I had a girlfriend who went to Mexico on a foreign exchange program and she did witness a bullfight. She had the same impression that Fel had, and what I originally did - that the odds were certainly stacked in the matador's favor, but the bull had a fighting chance. Afterall, that's why it was called a "bull fight", and not a "bull kill".

The thing is, unlike in a rodeo, there's no way for the bull to "win". Even if the bull does manage to kill the matador, it still dies in the end. I guess to be fair, it's better to trample the matador to death and get shot in the head for your efforts - it's a less painful way to die than to slowly bleed to death in the middle of the ring.

I also find Fel's take on rodeo's interesting. I still don't have any interest in the sport, and I've already admitted that this is the first time I've given it any thought, but in a sense, the bull can "win". The part of rodeo that I would could consider abuse is that they probably have to get the bull riled up before the guy gets on his back. While I admit that a bull is a rather ill-tempered beast to begin with, I don't think they'd go bat-sh*t crazy as soon as someone got on their back - especially considering that some bulls have been ridden dozens of times over the course of their lives. You'd think they'd get used to it after a while. So I'm thinking they must do something to agitate to bulls in the stalls to ensure they piss them off as much as possible when the guy gets on them.

 

The bulls do get used to it, just as horses do. The best bulls are then put to stud in the hopes of getting another nasty tempered monster like the sire was.

The whole focus on the rodeo is traditional cowboy skills (with the exception of the bull ride). It was a poor cowboy who would damage his employers herd. Some animals are injured accidentally, but the focus is to do the competition without injury to the competitor or the animals.

 

I have been to a bull fight in Spain. It is not even remotely fair and the matador indeed only goes to work after his buddies have worn the bull down.

First a team of guys with yellow/pink capes get the bull to chase them around the ring - they have large wooden barricades surrounding the ring that these guys hide behind so basically one guy will taunt the bull, the bull will charge him, the guy hides, another guy on the other side of the ring jumps out of hiding and the process repeats until the bull is tired.

Second, two guys on armoured horses come out with lance and attack the bull. They commonly sandwich the bull between the two horses and take turns stabbing the bull with the lances.

Third, the matador or his assistants bring out the throwing javelin like things with the coloured tassels that you often see sticking out of the bulls in bullfight pictures. They are actually taking some risk as they taunt the bull and throw the javelins while dodging but given that the bull has already been tired out and stabbed by lances it is hardly an even contest.

Finally the matador gets his red cape and sword and goes out to fight the bull. Given that the bull has three or four lances wounds and a bunch of javelins sticking into its hide it is already weak from bloodloss by this point.

Now, if the matador went out alone with no wooden barricades to hide behind and was armed with only the red cape and sword that would be an interesting sport but as it is the bull has virtually no chance whatsoever. Somehow I think the death toll among matadors would cause the sport to cease to exhist pretty damned fast using my rules.

 

Um - how is rodeo cruel, exactly? It's never really struck me as a cruel sport as, AFAIK, nothing bad actually happens to the bulls...

 

How exactly are the bulls prepared?

 

A documentry on RTE a few years ago highlighted a technique of using electric shocks. It makes calm animals appear to be untamed killers.

 

Cruelty to animals is not entertainment. When the animals get revenge and go berzerk on the abusers and those that cheer them on to abuse them is Highly entertaining...