America's slide to Nazism

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America is getting a little scary ... actually, they were a little scary a long time ago. Now it's terrifying.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061201/lf_nm/usa_muslims_fear_dc_1

So not only is there now a highly authoritarian government but also the public opinion is starting to lean towards supporting more extreme marking of Muslims than even Nazi Germany managed (they only made the Jews wear armbands, as I remember - tattooing people's faces ... what the hell? How ****ed up can you get?).

 

I'll give Klein one thing: he's got some courage.

I'm not going to go as far as equating this with the Nazi, considering the US government hasn't yet organised the mass extermination of Muslims (though I'm sure there are some people up there who would love nothing more than to see this happening). There are nutters everywhere, but it is certainly worrying that it's so easy to incite people to hatred. Someone blatantly suggested setting up encampments... the idea is truly disturbing.

 

There are some neo-nazis in America and Europe who think that Hitler's job of killing off the jews is not done yet and would be more than happy to continue that, not to mention the far-right "beating squads" in Russia that would make Svy look like a commie. These groups are minorities which get far too much public coverage and therefore they seem to people as being prediminant groups or atleast significant minorities which they aren't. However if congressmen begin to advocate this kind of stuff then I'd be worried.

 

No Poll has asked my opinion and the article doesn't state who ran the polls. IMO a poll is only as good as the people running it and the people questioned.

Unfortunately the News tends to go for what will catch peoples attention.

The people who call into TV or radio are usually extremists. The majority of people are middle-of-the-road, more or less and not as apt to make a call.

I think that middle USA would be most apt to be anti-muslim. People in the coastal areas are exposed to a greater variety of cultures. Of course this can be either negative or positive depending on experience.

 

I agree with Nakia. I wasn't polled... in fact, 1000 people were polled. That is .00003 percent of our population. For all we know, they could have put and ad in the newspapers for Muslim-haters to come take a poll While they probably didn't, taking that poll as the perfect truth about America is just as ignorant as the people who took it.

My opinion... well, actually, I am not sure. I know everyone should be equal and not be judged on their religion, but it seems Muslims do have a higher chance of being a terrorist than a white or hispanic person... I'm not sure.

 

@Saber: I can't disagree with your statements, however, I would like to point out at this stage that Muslims who tend to be terrorists more often than not come from Islamic countries.

I mean, sure there have been incidents of residents in a country being terrorists there itself, but I doubt many, if at all any, have been born and brought up in these Western countries...

Or do you think I'm just grossly mistaken?

 

Well, the article says it was a Gallup poll, so it was presumably conducted properly. In other words, 1,000 Americans selected randomly. And believe it or not, from what I recall of my university statistics courses, 1,000 is generally a large enough sample to give a statistically valid result.

 

Splunge is right. Unless the laws of statistics have changed since Splunge was at school.

 

Remember that Truman won the election despite what the polls said.

Polls are not infallible. I seldom respond to a poll simply because they seem to call at the most inconvenient times.

Muslims are not popular at least partly because of ignorance on the part of non-muslims.

I unhappily admit the the history of the USA does show a tendency towards prejudice of groups that don't fit some preconceived mold but over time we do come around. May take us a while though.

I rather suspect that a pole of Islamic nations would show a similar attitude towards residents of the USA.

I would be extremely upset if any sanctions of this sort were put in place not only because of the injustice of it but it would also set a terrible precedent.

I'd say it would probably be declared unconstitutional.

 

Aikanaro,
I disagree. I read the article too. It only tells you where demagogues can lead a country to when they use fear and demonise enemies. And Bush didn't offer anything but fear and demonisation in his formulas about the 'GWOT', and it was re-iterated by the opinion-mongers all over the country. IMO the poll results are a result of the hysterical response to 9/11, from senseless color-coded alerts to invading not only Afghanistan (which made sense) but Iraq too (which clearly did not).

Yet you will find such silly talk in every country. The only thing I like about the article is that it further dents the preposterous neo-con claim that Americans are by design inherently morally superior (just compare them to the 'cynical french') to the rest of the world.

There is an element on the US right that is perfectly capable, once emboldened, of street terror, or putting people into camps. Michelle Malkin, Anne Coulter and Michael Savage are fringe demagogues, but they do have a captive audience. They sell. They have made a habit out of calling for people to be shot, hung or beaten up for dissent with the decider or themselves, or as they call it, treason. They go unpunished. In Germany they would face charges of hate speech and inciting violence. We made bad experiences with letting such folks speak on.
But then again, you have such folks in most countries. They're a minority, they always are. That said, American nazism is a long way away, which is a good thing.

I admire a guy like Keith Olberman for speaking out so clearly against the outrageous conduct of the administration in his remarkable 'special comments' - but he's still pretty alone out there. And he started when it wasn't cool but carried a substantial risk of getting sacked.

I wonder why. Olberman is reacting totally normal and healthy: He's furious about outrageous policies. I can understand that.

So what concernes me more is the maddening inertia that characterised the response to the more outrageous actions and policies of the serving administration. Even now there is no public call to investigate administration, to demand accountability.
Also concerning to me is the 'Obrigkeitshörigkeit', a very German trait. Oh it's the president, he sure knows what he's doing.

[ December 10, 2006, 22:44: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

You know, Ragusa, that there is such a thing called a short post...


I watched a history channel documentary on American Nazism... it was interesting, and pretty damn scary, because at one point, if the Nazi leader hadn't left his gun at a crime scene (they used his prints to track him down and kill him), they would have had enough money to become a strong military force... scary stuff!

The ending was interesting too, because the Nazi leaders basically said they aren't even close to quitting because with the internet, they can reach anybody who shows even the slightest interest in Nazism.

 

Nazism is a little bit more complicated than the marginalization of an ethnic or religious group. Nazism, remember, dealt with the humiliation of a people (the Germans) after a war, new ideologies at the time (none of them proving to be so great), pseudoscientific ideas about racial purity and hygiene, the implicit consent of a people to be governed by Hitler and the Nazi party, etc., etc.

Unlike the Jews in the 20th century, there actually are Muslim fundamentalists who do pose a threat to Westerners' well-being. Of course, these people do not represent Muslims as a whole, but there is that sort of sentiment in the world (and not just the Middle East).

Racism and bigotry are terrible things. The Holocaust, the American killing of the Indians, the wars between Catholics and Protestants, etc., etc., etc. are terrible things, but nonetheless -- keep it in perspective.

 

Saber,
you saw that bit on the daily show? A comment on the 'Al Quaeda cell' they busted in Miami. The feds proudly declared these seven people planned a, quote, 'full ground war' against the United States. A major success in keeping America safe. Nothing less.

Stewart commented along the line: 'Seven guys? ... I believe that if you want to wage a *full* ground war against the United States you need to field at least as many people as, say, a softball team ...'

The bit illustrates the sort of hyperbole that led people into answers like in that poll. Be afraid! Very afraid! In case you missed it, Olbermann made a good point on that.

Besides, see: Short post.

 

So the reaction is, basically, 'it couldn't happen here!'?

Yes, the poll might be fallible. Yes, maybe only the far right extremists called up.

Maybe.

But let's face it, there's a pretty good likelihood that the poll is fine and that the people who called up are generally pretty normal people.

I honestly don't think that it would take too much of a push to send America into the deep end of the bat**** crazy pool. Sure - it's not here right now - but there's some pretty good indications that the groundwork has been laid.

If a competent leader for this group of people appeared they might actually go somewhere. Sure - most people now are middle-of-the-road - but the middle of the road can be convinced or ordered (remember the Milgram experiment) to do terrible things.

You might find 'silly talk' like this in every country - but no country seems to have so much of it as America, or be so ripe for it to go mainstream.

 

Anyone see Bowling for Columbine? Or American History X? Sure, they're just movies. But if there are nuts out there with views even remotely approaching those of the loonies in those movies, then someone's in trouble.

 

Reminds me of that person who gave a speech at Harvard in the late '60s denouncing the widespread unrest, student dissatisfaction, rioting, etc. After receiving thunderous applause, this person revealed that the speech was--verbatim--one of Hitler's.

Heh.

 

Hey, Hitler would have had some qualities that would have endeared him to a lot of voters today. Passionate rhetoric, opposition to a supposedly corrupt regime, blaming everything on a fringe group, promising better times for both the average Joe and the honest businessman (and having the support of the big companies).

It's not so incredible some people could catch the bait in the experiment in the OP - I consider it an experiment - but it's a pity more didn't recognize the cue tattoos/markings. There may be something wrong with how WWII history is taught in some schools, I guess.

 

Absolutely, damn right, Nakia. Polls like this one are only as valid as its crafters are willing to make it.

While it is true that there is a small sub-culture of Nazism in America, most reank-and-file Americans would never go along with much of what Hitler and his minions tried to accomplish during their short, but violent and explosive reign in Germany. America is too deeply rooted in its democratic values and institutions for such nonsense (and Germany can now be included in that category as well).

But I agree that these institutions have been a bit abused in recent years. Nevertheless, the American public noticed that things were not quite what they should be (and I'm still not willing to imply in anyway that they are Nazis). But hence, the harsh rebuke which the current (out-going party) and its leader have recently suffered. It may take a while, but the system still works....

[ December 12, 2006, 04:46: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

Hmm, but you did go along with the war in Iraq? How much say do you REALLY have?