America's slide to Nazism

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The last election was considered by many to be a referendum on the Iraq War, more than may other single issue. And you know the results: They gave Bush four years to prove what he could do in Iraq. And now they are calling him in on his massive failures in this regard. Never underesitmate the American people.

 

I'm not underestimating the American people. I am just calling into question your actual ability to stop your leaders from doing what they want, once you've voted them in. Hitler campaigns on a charismatic platform (lots of people don't care about politics so can be easily swayed), then once he's in the White House - Bang! Muslims and Jews being gassed left right and centre. How could you stop it?

 

This is probably not the case.

Polling people on the street about (for example) computer RPG's will get you fairly good responses, assuming you have a large enough sample and everyone responds honestly.

Asking people to call you about what they think about (for example) computer RPG's will probably get you two subgroups of people -- the computer RPG fans and the people who really don't like RPG's. Everyone else doesn't care enough to respond.

It's not a wholly fitting analogy, but you won't get good results from it if you're looking at what most Americans think. Likewise, keep in mind that -- if it hopes to get any attention -- the press has to emphasize the dramatic and extreme ends.

Remember that if you go and imply that America is the nation most likely to become a Nazi country, you also have to consider other countries (like yours!) where it is a possibility -- certainly keep in mind second- and third-world countries. Note that the Iranian president recently discounted the Holocaust

 

Oaz:

The poll I was refering to was this one:

So - a Gallup poll - a pretty accurate way of polling people.

And yes - it's a possibility that other countries will head off into Nazi-land. America just seems to be in an especially good position to do so, and as the world's resident superpower I'm much more worried about them going nuts than I am about Iran or some other country doing so.

Chandos:

What makes you think that the average American wouldn't go along with what is basically Nazism? 39% of Americans apparently support actions very similar to those which the Nazis took leading up to the Holocaust. There are clearly some more that want to go further.

And these probably aren't people that identify themselves as neo-nazis - they're probably just average people. Much in the same way that the your average SS soldier was probably a normal person when they weren't off murdering people.

People are afraid of Muslims. People will follow a charismatic leader. And most people don't care as much about democracy and freedom as they do about being safe and unafraid.

Here's something I found on wiki that may be interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#Public_opinion

People - even in America where freedom is supposedly highly valued - are willing to accept restrictions of freedom for safety. I'm sure the already flimsy democracy of America could be dumped if someone was going to promise safety in its place.

So I'd say that the political climate in America is looking pretty good for an anti-muslim government. People want to be safe from Muslims - if that means having them carry special identification, so be it. With the right leader, you could probably get many of them chanting for death camps...

 

And do you have any compelling reason to believe its crafters didn't make it as accurate as they could?

 

It only slighty touches the issue, but has anybody here seen 'Sleeper Cell'?

 

Fair enough, but the voluntary response condition pretty much makes the first point of the article (with the talk show host) invalid.

 

Bush is charismatic? Or have stupid and incompetent become synonyms of charismatic?

Which is why I am going to sucede. We aren't a democracy, we are a disillusioned republic. I mean, our presidential votes don't even mean anything...
But I don't think security will ever override our national pride in what we think is a democracy.

Security is one thing, but I doubt any majority or large minority would ever advocate for the organized killings of anyone. Another thing we pride ourselves in is being the world police. We saved the Jews by removing the Nazi power (apparently ), so we would attempt to commit those same acts if it would mean losing face. (Not to mention most people would recoil at the thought of mass murder...)

 

I'm sure you are not correct in commenting that America is a "flimsy democracy." In case you had not noticed, there was an election last month, and the governing party was sent packing. Why do you think that happened, even though the governing party promised safety over almost anything else? Or do you honestly believe that polls are more valuble than elections?

Are we about to have one of those pointless arguments over what is or is not a democracy? The government of the United States governs by the consent of the people. In other words, political power derives from the will of the people, more so than any other source. That is why Nancy Pelosi is the new Speaker of the House, and Denny Hassert can go back to coaching high school wrestling, or whatever it is he used to do.

...And do I have any compelling reason to believe that they really did make it as accurate they could?

[ December 13, 2006, 05:58: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

Democracy and republic are so closely intertwined that most people couldn't tell the difference. The fact is America is both a democracy and republic... a Democratic-Republic.

 

Thank you, CiG. I could not agree more...

 

But not a democractic people's republic?

 

...A Constitutional democratic-republic... :

 

I don't know about other US cities, but its hard to visit a typical bar in Pittsburgh, without hearing about 'sand niggers', terrorists etc.

 

New to these boards, found this site while looking for some stuff on Baldur's Gate II.

Thought I'd drop a comment here:
People are people . . . what else can you say? The culture in America is actually much, much more tolerant of criticism (I mean self-criticism) than most (really, all of those which are not consanguineous with American culture -- essentially "Western" culture).

BTW: Cuchulainn, I see you're a fan of Irish literature, right on! The Tain was fascinating . . .

Inicidentally, regarding the Jewish/Holocaust remarks, some might be interested in this text which documents the post-WWII German concentration camps run by Jews in Stalinist Russia and Eastern Europe where an ethnic cleansing of East European Germans took place -- a much under-discussed atrocity. Here's a link:

link

[ December 15, 2006, 00:00: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

It is not untold. My father told me. And my aunt. Not to mention my uncle. And my grandma. They didn't telly me anything about Jews though. They were perfectly unhappy about vengeful Poles and Russians, and expressed that.
I have a problem with this sort of revisionism. Particularly in this case. I think this book is a load of

Besides, welcome.

 

Alright, well we aren't a good enough democracy. But that is beside the point for this debate...

And I think the only way we would ever 'slide to nazism' is if we had a leader or two that supported the capture/imprisonment of Muslims based on their religion/nationality. I think the people would have too many different opinions to make a choice on something as radical as this, but a leader would help persuade Congress to pass laws doing the above.

 

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
- Benjamin Franklin

 

Yes, Nazis were quite gentle with the Jews. How do all of the foreigners dying to come here survive the oppressive fascist America! What a Pud!