Perhaps it'll end now.

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Right. To all you 'roleplayers' or 'powergamers' out there. Especially the so-called role-players. Each individual here paid more than 30 bucks to purchase Baldur's Gate 2 and is free to do whatever he or she likes with the contents of the game box be it play the game 'roleplaying' style, 'power gamer' style or just to wipe the dinner table with the manual and scrape crumbs off with the disc. To Taluntain and Syl, I applaud their 'roleplaying' arguments because they are presented in a way as a suggestion as to how one can enjoy a good game. Although Grub is heading for a beating....
To Amon-Ra, I say up yours because you're a dogmatic freak who's ruining a good board with your " Powergamers shouldn't be allowed to play BG2 " posts. And I personally despise your elitist personality especially when after some simple consideration, you're no more elite than anyone else, be it the goth gamer, nerd nor high school jock. But that's out of the point. I wonder how the Mods can let someone like you come in and bash and flame a proportion of the posters here. I call myself a 'powergamer' not because I use Shadowkeeper like hell, but because I am keen on getting my PC as powerful as possible through legal means. My Kensai Mage was perfectly legal but well-planned and worked in perfect harmony with the less than ideal NPCs like Minsc and Jaheira. Few battles were lost and I did not reload a hundred times an hour, even on my first time through when I didn't know when a major battle was going to happen. The point is: what's bloody wrong with having a god-awesome character that I meticulously planned and built through much effort? Cloudkill x6 into the Fog of War is not a tatic that I use but I don't see any point in bashing people who use it. There's no 'proper' way of playing BG. If you can applaud the roleplayers for really getting into the game, surely the legal planners and strategists deserve recognition too. Maybe I can't stand people who go: " Oh, I must roleplay a Paladin, so I'll wipe out the Shadow Thieves and Edwin. I'm lawful good, so I must watch Viconia burn. ( No one who is 'good' at all will let a person burn for no reason. ) " But I don't go around saying POWERGAMERS UNITE! WUSSY ROLEPLAYERS DON"T DESERVE TO PLAY BG OR ANY GAME AT ALL! Well, not addressed to anyone anyway. The argument when it comes down to this is, maybe when you see a post detailing a great and well-executed 'roleplaying' strategy and you like it, appluad it. If you see a 'cheap' but ingenius and thoughtful strategy that 'exploits' the game and you like it, applaud it. ( Cloudkill/Fog of War never cames close to being ingenius to me ) If you don't, shut the hell up. Dogmatic flamers are not welcome anywhere and I'm sure at least a few people agree with me on that. The atmosphere at Sorceror's Place was pretty pleasant until you came in with your 'Roleplaying' Flames. And that's not a personal attack but rather a notice to you on your behaviour.

 

Well, Shura, I must admit I agree. I took you as a Shadowkeeper abusing type of power gamer, and was wrong. If you are the kind to achieve a character through legitimate means, I have no qualms with you and apologize completely for any attacks I made against you. Though I still feel strongly against hacked characters and people who play the game just to achieve a powerful character (in my experience, it can be much more fun if you actually take time to enjoy the struggle and the excitement of REACHING such a goal), I will stop flaming power gamers in general.

Take into consideration I could have simply responded with a $%!@ off response, but I have actually taken into consideration both sides and found that though I was simply voicing my opinion, I did so in a far too offensive manner, and while making incorrect assumptions, and I'm sorry. It is not normally my nature to do such a thing, as I usually respond to an argument such as that with sarcasm or humor and try to settle it in a peaceful manner. I still stand strongly against power-gaming, mind you, but I should just as you have pointed out, I should not have acted in the manner I did. I too would like to see this board return to the helpful gaming conference table it has been, and as a compromise it would be great if both flaming and extreme bragging were left out.

As for me being an elitist, I believe we have something in common there. If i recall correctly, was it not you who said some people need drive-by shootings?

Amon-Ra

PS. I'm ruining a good board? Heh, ask Tal about the e-mail he sent me. j/k.

I'm l337, so donut $!@# w1th m3, h4x0r. Hehe.

[This message has been edited by Amon-Ra (edited January 05, 2001).]

 

this is fun give me more of it...just joking.
i can understand both opinions but i confess i go more with Shura because it (seems) to be the more tolerant one.
i've been using these boards only for about a month but i like them very much and don't have any thing against the atmosphere at all,more the contrary.they are very helpful(and in my opinion every good discussion has to be nearly a quarrel).

at this point:tnx Tal,Syl and Naz(although i can't remember ever seeing a post from Naz;and i can feel the slime dripping...)

ps:i have never seen any power-gamers bragging about non-legit characters but i confess it would drive me up the walls

 

Well, I just spoke with Grub or at least I tried to.

His food was being spit out of his mouth while he was gnawing on a live chicken and he smelt of something aweful too!

In his defense, he is who he is and is not shamed for it. His Barbaric nature might not be welcomed for everyone, but he does have respect for those he travels with and those who have helped him in battle. Heck, he even traveled to Spellhold to return the favor to Imoen and free her from the clutches of Irenicus! How many Half-Orc Barbarians would do that?

I had to back out of the common room though when I told him he was in for a beating. His bushy brows suddenly rose and his eyes burned with an inner fire. The last thing I heard was his fist smashing through the wooden table and the thud of a throwing axe where I had been standing not moments before.

Just be careful Shura, he's one bad-ass mofo.

Syl...

 

Gawd I am glad to hear that. Every time you find a gaming group there are always "munchkins" who are bashed by the rather arrogant "role-players" and the "power-gaming" thing being used as just an excuse. Then there is "power-gamers" who always ruin the fun for everyone. I guess I already have told the story about the player that charmed my figther so I couldn't do anything or taking so unfair advantages that it pains.
But it IS different in BG. You are the only player so do what you wan't. And I understand players who keeps their reputation low to have evil characthers.
I wanted Edwin or Viconia so badly so I just played evil but if you REALLY wan't Minsc or Aerie too then there is no choice. The point is I really don't think you belong to any of these groups if it's just a computer game also I think you ruin the game for yourself by cheating.

 

I'm playing the game the third time through. Technically, I'm sort of cheating by that alone, since I became familiar with the majority of quests and "plot twists" the first time through. The second time through, it was more about "power gaming" by removing the XP cap and using SK , and essentially turning my PC into a one-man army. The third time through, the lust for more power and level advancement has been completely satisfied; now it's about switching from my neutral good ways and turning chaotic evil. I'm eager to get through fights because they're only a means to an end now; that end being to have the opportunity to make choices that were anathema to my character before. I'm having to go against the gut instinct that I have and tell Jahiera to shut up when she talks about Khalid, I told Hendek that he could rot in prison for all I care, and betrayed the Nymphs from the level 1 dungeon...now I'm thinking about what being chaotic evil really means, and I'm thinking it doesn't always necessarily mean choosing the rudest comment or telling everyone off..my character has a high intelligence (not as high as Edwin, but still pretty high), and I see him as a great manipulator, tricking people by gainign their confidence with nice sounding words, then stabbing them in the back after their usefulness has ended. Since level advancement is not paramount, my priorities are not treating everyone nicely to ensure that I get lots of quests.

What does my post have to do with this topic.
Um...

Beats me. I guess since it deals at least a bit with roleplaying and powergaming, I wanted to show that someone doesn't necessarily fall 100% into either category all the time. I enjoy both aspects of playing at different times, and I so far have never played an multiplayer RPG anyway, so that whole scenario is foreign to me. I really enjoy reading posts from both sides, except when we end up arguing over whether one way or another is the right way to play. Just about every "powergamer" is going to know that they're "cheating themselves" by not playing the game strictly by the rules. Being told that again and again by roleplayers accomplishes very little in terms of constructive conversation. Heh...maybe we should have people use a code in their post like the "spoiler" preface to indicate that it's a powergaming or roleplaying specific post, so people who get all upset at either can just avoid it. It'd keep people from having fits of rage, maybe, if they can see that "oh, that Cuckoo fool is talking about whether or not attacking nonhostile creatures is strategy or exploiting a design flaw again," and you can ignore the post, knowing full well that anyone with a user name like Cuckoo has to be insane anyhow.

Now I have to go play with my sock puppets. They're all level 40, and dual-weild Blackrazor and Celestial Fury...

 

Point taken. I wouldn't want to meet the sock puppets nor Grub in a dark alley. Apologies to Taluntain for assuming too much and to Amon-Ra for being too harsh.

 

I have played both ways, too, normal and munchkin. Both are fun in their ways, the first time I played was standard, of course. The munckin games don't ruin it for me, it's fun to beat the heck out of those darn trolls that made me weep the first time I faced them! I just strictly believe in keeping the munchkin stuff out of multi player. In fact, I like hearing about other people's cheats and power gaming, it's entertaining. To me, the only true role playing is p&p, and you follow what the DM dictates in terms of what you can have in his/her game.

 

On a total other note, this is one reason why Sorcerer's Place stands above all others on those I visit.

There was a good debate and discussion going on which Sorcerer let go until he felt enough had been said that nothing more could be done about it and closed the topic.

Although this one was started, it also didn't end in dumb one-liners of "U SUX!" or other silly comments. That gets good respect on any message board and it's good to know, although many of us have different views here, those views are respected and if we cross a line, we accept it and move on.

Be friendly, be helpful and be respectful. The FHR of Sorcerer's Place

Syl...


[This message has been edited by Sylvus Moonbow (edited January 05, 2001).]

 

Sylvus, I just wanted to say that you are the best message board moderator that I have ever had the privledge of meeting. Your friendly posts, helpful hand in guiding brave warriors to the right path have shown me the error of my own ways.

< With love, from Sylvus (U SUX!!!!)

Sorry, couldn't resist...I plead guilty by way of being cuckoo....

[This message has been edited by Sylvus Moonbow (edited January 05, 2001).]

 

please don't get me wrong but i think these posts should be linked to the humorous occasions post

 

Only comment from me:

I paid 69,99$ + 15% taxes (CDN + taxes) for this game. I will play it the way I want. Nobody here is in position to criticize the way I play. If I decide to play the "powergamer" type or whatever, it is my, and only my business. If the way I choose to play make me happy and I feel that this game give enough fun for the 69,99 + 15% taxes (CDN) I paided, so rejoice. I dont think that there is a way to play better that another. And I'm sure that the first objective of the company who maded this game was (after doing a lot of cash) to give a product that people will have fun to use it.

So, use it the way you want, I dont give a damn. But hell, HAVE FUN WITH IT!!!!!

 

U SUX!!!!!!!!!!!111111

I HAEV A HAXED MAN WITH A +19314 SWORD AND A +436 MEGA SHEILD. HE CNA KILL ALL TEH DRAGONS AT TEH SAEM TIME WITH ONE HIT!!!!!11111

ALL OF HIS STATS R 25 AND HE IS LEVEL 50!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

AM I A POEWER GAEMER?????//////

I THINK SHADO KEEPER IS GUUD.!!!!!!!1111

Hmm, powergaming, i don't really care if someone powergames, roleplays or just plays it not doing either. And i won't go on a crusade flaming everyone I meet who disagrees with me. I paid £30 for this game and the CDs make damn good placemats. All I am saying is that you can do anything you wish with the game because you bought it. And the role players have NO right at all to flame anyone who does not agree with role playing. I myself don't use shadowkeeper, but I don't roleplay either, I just play it and try and get levels, do the odd sidequest and go father on in the game, I have evil NPCs and good NPCs and a rep of about 12, it doesn't really waiver either.

You can flame me all you wan't for not "role playing" or "power gaming" but I belive there is an equlibrium and not everyone is a "role player" or a "power gamer" so you can take that in and perhaps just shut the fuck up and stop complaining about what other people do because its none of your business

[This message has been edited by Septic Yogurt (edited January 06, 2001).]

 

Let the topic die. Please. I mean it.
Look, the whole "to power game or not to power game" debate was fun for a while(I know I got some fun out of it), but hopefully Tal has now put a bullet in its head. People were getting way to defensive, with both sides stirring the other up(yes I did, so what). Anyway, hopefully it is over and these boards can get back to being one big dissfunctional family

And besides, it was turning me EEEVVVVVIIILLL

[This message has been edited by Crawl (edited January 07, 2001).]

 

Oh dear, well I guess I am not the only one who thought someone had something against them because of the way they played or who they played.

Everyone's opinion is exactly that. It is not for you to say if it is wright or wrong, because that would be your opinion. And your opinion verses their opinion is still an opinion and not a fact. So, don't take it to heart.

If you can learn from it do so, if not pass it up for something you can.

 

You're still a coward if you're a fighter using ranged weapons. Especially bows

Syl...

 

Amen