New Project: NW Flawless

Remove all ads!

Hello all,

I would like to share with this comunity a new project that is starting and depends on the cooperation of all those interested in help the quality of NWN growth..

Take a moment and visit: NW Flawless Project (Click here!)

Its important for us your participations in the beggining of our ideas.

Best regards all, sorry anything.

[ December 24, 2004, 19:25: Message edited by: Ketaros ]

 

Well, let me be the first one to laugh at you (i hope).

HA HA HA.

(Seeing your website i shall declare this as a "flawed project". Idea is great... seeing the website, the execution is not or will not be.)

[/cynical modder mode]

Anyway, do you have real modding experience? Mod balancing experience? Extensive scripting experience?

You need modders who will hate your every typo to even hope to make it work. And after that you need loads and loads of work. And then you MIGHT have a chance to succeed.

 

Umm, "Ketaros," you do know that you are stealing content and labelling it as your own? And you do know that is illegal? None of the portraits you have posted are made by you, and I can prove it with every single one of them. Furthermore, a significant part of them are parts of unfinished mods, not to mention taken from existing mods as well.

If you want to recruit anyone into your project, you have to show that you respect the work of others.

 

Ok.. let me clarify some points...

First, to Taza:

If something on the starting execution is not going right, we would be very open to listem your critics and work to fix that problems. Just say its "flawed", what I belive it can be during sometime, doesnt helps much. Would you be willing to send me your comments and critics? Thats exacly what I need... Thanks if you can bud.

I do have prety large experience on modding and scripting, having participated in a couple projects and help many others. Doing this kinds of things since 2002... non-stop.

Thanks for share your views..

Now, toughluck:

First, I NEVER labeled any portrait there as mine, and the portraits that other players made and are at the vault and are plenty used by many builders, i belive that if someone creates a portraits and shares it at the NWVault, is for others use it, if diferently I hope they message us, and we shall remove it right away. Would be insane message each portrait creator and wait for their replies, IF they still on NWN... or even with same e-mail.
Other portraits there from artists outside NWN are works they shared and allowed others to use with 3 rules if you dont know:
1- It CANT be use in a profitable or comercial aspect.
2- It CANT be edited, saving the cases of its sizes, without deformations.
3- Prohibited to use if some company has bought its rights, saving the cases that the company allow it uses.

You can now go and check this, if you find some portrait not following this rules, let me know and they shall be removed right away.

Please, dont tell that I dont respect the work of others without basis for it. I do respect, as everybody always respected mine, and I never complained for they being used by many mods.

Best regards all, and expecting a lil more comprehension in a idea that has the soleny porpouse to help the comunity.

[ December 24, 2004, 19:25: Message edited by: Ketaros ]

 

Grammar mistakes.

I'm not really an expert in english language, but there do seem to be quite a few mistakes in your page.

I dont know about others, but it does convey quite a message to me. Slightly in the meaning of the word n00bish if you know what i mean.

 

Gothmog,

Thanks for also point out the grammar problem, we are aware of it already, and looking for a solution.

Best regards,

[ December 24, 2004, 19:26: Message edited by: Ketaros ]

 

I like being the first one to laugh.

Nope, this isn't going anywhere. Have you ever made a large-scale mod, anyway? As the main modder, that is.

*continues laughing*

(fyi, i would otherwise try to do my typical hijack of the project, but i'm leading LoA and Telinport (High quality NWN Persistent Worlds) already and storytelling a VtM game, keeps me busy. )

 

Ok, ok. Constructive advice:

- Get experienced modders
You'll never know how much fighting you have to go trough to get something to work, and the more experience the people working on it have, the more likely it is that they won't quit at the first hard point.

- Work on your grammar
That site at it's current form screams "n00b", and thus you're not likely to get good modders in.

- Get rights to use content
Always, and i mean always get rights to use the content you're adding. If you don't know who made it, do not use it. If you change a .hak, all users must download the new hak (or update their hak), which will be very annoying extremely quickly.

- Do not add content automatically to the "custom" tab in the toolset
This is extremely annoying for any modder.

- Make sure you have enough time
Never have i seen anything kill a project like this quicker than lack of time.

- Stay on the "flawless" line
If you step even one step away from the "flawless" line and don't check every model, portrait, placeable, some bad content will slip in, and soon the haks will be seen the same quality as the worst parts of them. I believe this is what happened to CEP, the TDD of NWN.

 

Well,

Thanks for sharing your views Taza, besides just get trying to frustate us, what you were far to be able to.

We are understanding that has 2 kind of peoples, those who will look and say: Hey, this guys are asking and need help, so I think I can give them a hand. Or in the other side, meanwhile only you, but we expect more, that will laughs and makes fun of us.

Well, not sure if my words werent clear in my last post, but I do belive I have some experience in devellopment and insertions of custom contents on huge modules and PWs, even Im centralizing this on me, we have each of us focused on what they know how to do better. For sure we will step on some problems, I have learn alot from them, and we still able always to learn more.

Ayeh, thats certanly something that is bugging me alot. Unfortunely english isnt my first language, and Im already getting some english speaker fellow to sit at my side a watch it for me. And unfortunely I understand that speaking a NOOBISH english, compromise the whole project.

The majory of contents are publics, when not used for profits or comercial intentions. Now, the massive contents that comes from NWVault for example, we are considering add it, and remove if bothers some content creator that clains its rights. Mostly no one complains. Im a content creator for NWN and always got more happy them mad when someone made uses of them.
About the update process and suchs, we have studed a PACKAGE idea that will do nicely, some people are mixing the NWF idea with something like CEP, what is NOT, our idea is pool diferents styles and kinds of packages of certain contents, we do plan to someday throw ou a FULL NWF Package but that I think its far to happens, and when it happens MAYBE it will looks like a idea of CEP. But the whole project is totaly diferent. For example, if you think you can organize and launch a very complete and Flawless package of Weapons, we have this chair open menawhile.

On creatures, we have been considering do diferent packages of UTCs, each one following diferent core rules.
So you download, when its get ready, the package of NWF Creatures to use on your module. That package brings no UTCs. But as a acessory for this package, you can donwload the UTC Package of D20 Core Creatures, that if you add togheter with the creatures hak will create all creatures following the exacly core specified on your custom TAB. That idea also works for Armors, Equipaments and Weapons. What you think?
The only think we are realy considering in bring the UTPs togheter with the placeables. Being the stats and qualifications for it not much to chance we belive its not a problem bring on the Custom tab all Placeables created, specialy those Placeables that requires some scripts.
Obs: The ITPs we are setting togheter with the packages, not changing or deleting anything, but adding some entries that realy can be missed.

Even having started it a bit hurried, we have no hurry, we have time but we understand that this time has to wisely used. Also we are expecting more comunity participation in the future, what will save us a bunch of time, being more judges and organizers of new contents, but on this first stage we are with alot work, and at least me, have plenty time on my vacations till march.

How we can run away from this mistake!? That were our main question at the begging, and we realize that the other projects didnt did were have a wide open comunication with the comunity, we think diferent, we wont lock in our rooms for some months and suddenly appear with something. We wanna the comunity participating over all whole ideas and devellopment, for that we know we will suffer at the begging alot of harsh judgments, just like you were starting to do ridicularizing us, but we understand we must pass thru this comunity trial, and we are up for it. The project is serious, we are going ahead, but we are not gods or kings, we need help of everybody, who are willing to join and contribute, from critics to contents comments or productions...

Best Regards all,

[ December 24, 2004, 19:27: Message edited by: Ketaros ]

 

I wonder what Luis Royo would have to say about that. While you're at it, you can ask Boris Valejo as well...

Either way, pure courtesy would require you to not reuse pictures from yet unreleased mods. Released - no problem. Copyrighted pictures - who's going to complain, it's a wild goose chase to find who's been the first one to release a picture to the net (it's not like some artists will complain about it).
But under no circumstances should you reuse pictures from mods that haven't been released yet. When they do get released, people will get the feeling of "I've seen that portrait before, where was it? Oh, in that ... mod. Oh well, they're reusing public domain pictures, their mod must really suck."
Other category of portraits you should never reuse are actually taken pictures of actual people (including modified ones). They might have been released for a particular mod only, and they wouldn't like their likeness reused where they didn't approve it.

BTW, you already are far behind flawless:
1. Irenicus's picture as a portrait for a Half-Orc??? This really screams for correction.
2.
http://www.nwflawless.com/img/portraits/po_gn_f_ket003_m.jpg
Reusing someone's Christmas avatar from some forum and calling it a gnome portrait is really bad taste.
3.
http://www.nwflawless.com/img/portraits/po_el_f_ket008_m.jpg
http://www.nwflawless.com/img/portraits/po_ha_f_ket005_m.jpg
I'm sure Amalthea really appreciates you using the portraits she made.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg...

I'm really wondering about two things:
1. Do you give credit to proper authors?
I doubt it, some of them would not allow you to use their work.
2. What will you do if you are asked to remove content?
How will you ensure everybody deletes their old version of the .hak file and replaces it with your newer version?

You do know that you can be held liable for breaching copyright, am I right?

[ December 24, 2004, 02:53: Message edited by: toughluck ]

 

My god... toughluck...

You dont have a single clue what you are talking about... do you?? Youre showing off to someone posting all this non-sense!??!

I will "try" to reply somethings...

How would be possible we have portraits from modules that wasnt release!?!? How we would know if we have some portrait that would come in a future module if that module wasnt release yet!?!? Please.. clarify this.. be cause youre making no sense for us...

Not use pictures from peoples?!!? Welll unfortuleny I have to say that we have more them 10.000 portraits of peoples on NWN Comunity, it the person represented there exist or not we cant discover... but if it is.. heheheh.... inform us!

Now that was the CLIMAX of your "non-sense" post for me, imagine that we got a christmas avatar from a forum and made it a portrait.. *laughs* that were very creative... and if is true.. go complain on where it come from: http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/portraits/data/1066598253590.shtml

Oh!! One point with some sense... IF Amalthea want we to remove the some portraits she made from NWF, we promptly will.

You didnt read my first post for you, do you!?
I can ensure you AGAIN, that we will promptly remove any portrait that a creator asks to be remove.

No I cant. But I think I dont have to explain anything else for you, or explain again, feel free to find your answers.

Be well,

[ December 24, 2004, 19:27: Message edited by: Ketaros ]

 

Ask Apricane what she made that portrait for. BTW, it's her face, and she might not like it if you are posting it in the public outside of nwnvault. Makes it much harder to track if she eventually wanted to take the picture down.

Your first post is totally irrelevant to this particular case.

Ummm... Why me? It's your job if it is you who is making the mod. Not mine.

And your case is completely lost. Let's say I ran a free movielenders. I'm benevolent and altruistic, so I have paid the copyright fees and am distributing the movies for free. Your reasoning boils down to:
"If I can get them for free, why not copy them and put up my own store with free lending?"
Doesn't work that way.

People create that content with mind of it not showing up anywhere else. They receive full credit for their work. I wonder if every file (that does not only apply to portraits, you know) you've added is given proper credit. I can only hope so, but I am in serious doubt.

 

Toughluck...

I think you presume way too much, and are way out of the ideas and subjects related with has been done, Im tired of reply someone who presumes everything.

Unfortunely I will not reply you anymore about what you insist.

Do a favor for you, and me, face to other direction, leave NWF idea out your mind, if you dont wanna to understand what Im speaking, Im sorry, but it will be better for you.

Sincerely best reagards,

[ December 24, 2004, 19:28: Message edited by: Ketaros ]

 

I have to note, I agree with toughluck's points completely.

You haven't got the foggiest who owns the copyrights, you appear not to have any real modding experience and your grasp on grammar is questionable. That screams "trouble" to me worse than ultra-extra-super-maxi-ac80-hell wurms.

Thus far, it seems like it's gonna end up as CEP with less content and worse packaging.

 

Taza,

Less contents them CEP, might happens, because we are with focus on quality not in quantity.

About the "foggiest" way we have dealt with copyrights....

Good news...

We have added a credits section on the Portraits Pack content list.
Check there.

We hope that way we are minimizing the problems, any futher problem or critics tell us.

Thanks all.

Now buddy, about your presumes on that I have no modding experiences, well, you have to wait and see... just say for you "I have" is surely not enought.

And for the 4th time I repeat, my grasp in ENGLISH grammar is realy questionable, and that is also being dealt.

On the forums we are talking about the NWF here was the only one that popped 2 guys shooting ragely against us, and that made be the place where most helped us. Can now sounds weird, but thanks.

Be well,

[ December 24, 2004, 20:27: Message edited by: Ketaros ]