Sorceror Spell Selections

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Hello, everyone, this is my first post on this forum.

I am looking for guidance with spell selections for sorcerors. I found a thread containing a good discussion of sorceror spells (and assignment of letter grades rating them) for playing in HOF mode:

http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/14/2481.html

Alas, I am not playing HOF, and many of the comments or grades assigned don't seem germane to a game in normal mode.

Can anybody direct me to a guide for choosing sorceror spells when playing in normal mode?

 

Welcome to the boards.
This guide discusses some of the more useful spells in the game.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/icewind_dale_2_a.txt

 

It disagree somewhat with that list. I would say that the spells you definitly should pick for normal mode are:

lvl1: Chromatic orb (does wonders at higher lvls)
lvl2: Mirror image (the nr1 protection for mages)
lvl3: Fireball (somewhat difficult to use but kills enemies fast and makes battles against hordes easier)
Skulltrap (smaller area of effect, but late in normal mode it does somewhat more damage)
lvl4: Stoneskin (Makes your tanks last much longer in normal mode)
lvl5: Chaos (disable lots of enemies)
lvl6: Mass haste (Makes your whole party a lot better)
lvl7: Mordenkaidens sword (turns your mage into a killing machine)
DBFB (Like fireball but more power)
lvl8: Symbol of hoplessness ("Hmm, almost all enemies stopped moving!!")
lvl9: Wail of the banshee (kill 'em fast)

 

That's a solid list, Mudde. I'd add Magic Missile (L1), Web (L2), and Chain Lightning (L6).

 

Magic missile is probably one of the best lvl 1 spells when you first get it and flaming hands can be good to kill several goblins and finish off throlls.
I usually don't use web much but it can be very good in the right place. Aganazzars scorcer is also useful early on as the most powerful lvl2 spell when you get it, but it looses it's punch after some time.
Chain lightning is quite easy to use but weak for a lvl 6 spell. I usually have more use of disintigrate or acid storm if I have some extra slots.
All shadow conjurations and animate dead should be mentioned as good summons

 

Mudde, I tend to use Web plenty. It's a staple spell for me when I'm setting up a magical kill zone.

I like Chain Lightning merely because it gives my nuker a variety of potent elemental spells to use against a variety of enemies.

I'm fond of the demon and elemental summoning spells, even though you need to cast Prot. from Evil on your party to prevent them from turning on you. Demon and elemental summons are very, very nasty and can wreak terrible havoc behind enemy lines. I particularly love dropping one of them right next to a particularly nasty mage (who shall remain unnamed to avoid spoilers) in the Fields of Slaughter to keep him rather occupied.

Also, Fire Elementals are great in this role, cuz you can then target it with fireballs or Firey Cloud spells and not hurt your own summons. (A particularly nasty tactic in HOF.) BTW, you can do effectively the same thing with an Animate Dead summons and a Cloudkill spell, since undead summons are immune to cloudkill.

 

Sleep followed by Fireball are essential for the hordes of goblins in this game.

 

Web and Fireball works pretty well too.

 

I second Mudde's skull trap recommendation. Uncapped damage potentional and great versatility.

Charm spells are very useful and fun to use...they are particularly entertaining when you can incite an enemy cleric to heal your party members.

Invisibility spells come in handy throughout any campaign.

Parties with a strong emphasis on melee combat can benefit greatly from executioner eyes. With E.E., in addition to the improved critical feat and weapon bonuses, a character can deal critical hits on nearly half of his strikes. A high strength warrior, especially wielding a two-handed weapon, can become an utterly destuctive force.

 

I third the Skull Trap recommendation. No limit on damage dice is makes Skull Trap a wonderful 3rd level spell. And while I know that the original poster said that he isn't playing HOF, no limit on damage dice makes Skull Trap a great 3rd level spell in HOF. And it's quite versitile. It's a "trap" spell that doesn't have to go off immediately. The fact that its damage radius is not quite so large actually makes it rather useful in closer quarters and nearer your own party with less fear of friendly fire damage.

The measly little Charm Person spell can be quite potent during chapter one in normal mode. When faced with 3 or so archers behind a melee line of enemies, it's almost more useful to charm one archer than it is to try damage all 3 without killing them. One charmed archer becomes a target, a decoy and sucks the fire of the other archers onto him.


Yes, Executioner's Eyes is a great spell. Heck, pretty much any 9th level spell is a nice spell that will help your party. Well, maybe casting a Gate spell without having your party properly protected from evil might be verrrrrrry risky. (I actually had a case once in HOF where I'd summoned a Gate demon and my PfE wore out on my party and the demon turned on me. That was major badness at a very inopportune time. And required a reload.)

 

Mudde, you suggested a shadow conjuration spell.

I notice that there are two 5th level spells that seem very similar: Greater Shadow Conjuration and Summon Shadow.

The only apparent difference that can be gleaned from the manual is that the latter lasts one round longer. Is that the only difference? Or does one spell summon/conjure more powerful shadows than the other (relative to caster level)?

 

They are two different spells. Summon Shadow brings out a really pitiful undead creature called a Shadow. It does improve with levels, but it's not worth casting. Shadow Conjuration (L4), Greater Shadow Conjuration (L5), and Shades (L6) are the shadow summoning series they are talking about. These bring out a shadowed version of normal monsters that has less hp than the normal monster, is controllable, and doesn't use their spellcasting abilities (if any).

 

As nunsbane pointed out I should maybe mention an invisibility spell: invisibility sphere can save you in the beginning of forced battles.
charm person lasts for a too short time to be useful in normal mode. Chaos otoh is great against weak will-saves (almost all fighter-types) so that's the enchantment spell you'll want to use. In HOF the charm-type spells are getting more useful so if you ever play that you should memorize more of those spells.
Executioner's Eyes is a great spell, but WOTB is so much better for almost every party! It can be ok as a second pick for a melee heavy party. For other parties mass dominate is probably a better pick as a second.

 

Mudde, I guess that I disagree with you about the usefulness of Charm Person in normal mode, particularly in Chapter One. I've always found it to be quite useful. I don't care that it doesn't have a particularly long duration. The monsters you charm aren't all that tough that they'll survive long when their buddies start attacking them. Merely forcing one archer (for example) in a group or 3 or 4 to change sides, almost always makes him a target and stops his friends from attacking you. Also, if you have a choice of charming an archer or a spellcaster, try charming the archer, since he's more likely to have a lower will save and thus, will be more likely to be charmed.


That said, I don't tend to use Charm Person much beyond chapter one and I agree that Chaos is a very, very nice level 5 spell.


There's no doubt that Wail of the Banshee is a great spell, but so is Mass Dominate. I tend to prefer MD for the same reason that I like Charm Person. Anyone you've dominated begins fighting on your side and becomes a target of the enemy. WOTB "merely" reduces the number of enemies. MD reduces the number of enemies and increases the number of allies. And the fact that those new allies become targets of the remaining enemies means that fewer of your party end up being targets. And it also has the advantage of being a Will save based spell whereas WOTB is a Fort save spell, which enemy monsters are more likely to save against.

And if you've had some luck in melee and your party and their MD'd allies have defeated the remaining enemies, you can then get rid of the MD'd monsters by having them turn on each other one at a time until there's only one left standing or the spell expires.


Don't get me wrong. Both WOTB and MD are absolutely "can't go wrong" level 9 spells.

 

I usually have at least 2 high-lvl arcane casters (sometimes 3 or 4 casters but the last ones of lower lvl). There I usually have my primary caster specialized in evocation and using WOTB in hard fights and the secondary being an enchanter-type using all possible charm-type spells (and also many debuffs).
WOTB is usually a bit better since it kills the enemy mages before they have the time to summon anything while MD only kills the tanks which aren't much of a problem, especially in my later games where I have had high-AC decoys.
Saying that I still think it's easier just killing enemies than charming them in normal mode! In HOF it's different since even the weakest charmed goblin is a strong ally.

 

Mudde, I rarely bother trying to charm a front line tank type of enemy, partially cuz I don't want to risk attacking them even by accident and having them become enemies again. But I do like trying to charm enemy archers who are well behind the enemy tanks, particularly when they're near enemy spellcasters. Killing anyone you see can seem easy, but actually turning an enemy archer who's got plenty of other enemies nearby causes havoc behind the lines and that's almost always a good thing.

I guess that it's a matter of differing tactics. While killing all of your enemies is your eventual goal, sometimes casting a spell that can cause chaos and confusion behind enemy lines can be a very, very effective tactic, particularly when your ability to kill enemies with a single strike or spell is almost nil. An ally that suddenly appears in the enemy's rear can distract them from attacking your party, regardless of whether that all is a summoned monster or a charmed enemy. If I can make a nasty enemy spellcaster switch his focus from my party to a new ally, I've prevented that spellcaster from attacking my party, at least for a while. And that's largely my goal when I charm enemies.

 

I like MD better than WOTB because the enemies who are dominated are as good as dead *and* you get to use the soon to be corpses for your own insidious purposes. Instead of having only a deficit of enemies you have a deficit of enemies and a surplus of allies. As an added bonus, you witness your enemies tear each other to pieces and possibly benefit from the attention of an enamored healer.

 

You can do both; a Sorcerer for heavy damage and a Bard to beguile your foes... And from a RPing perspective it makes sense.

 

Very interesting discussion. I've heard several people in several forums say Aganazzor's Scorcher (2d lvl) and Melf's Acid Arrow (2d level) are tempting at early stages but less useful as the game goes on. Thoughts on that? I've used them both a lot but I have yet to get very far in the game.