3e Rules for Ranged Weapons

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I am new to 3ed rules, and the game manual does not seem to have anything on this, so can someone tell me what the differences are between crossbows and bows with 3ed rules (i.e. are there rate of fire differences)? In 2nd ed, the differences were simple. Bows get 2 base attacks per round, Crossbows get 1 (this was different for heavy xbows), and this made sense. But, in IWD2 it seems like there are not any differences between bows and crossbows, or light and heavy crossbows. I have noticed that bows appear to have a slightly faster weapon speed, but other than that there does not seem to be much difference. Also, regarding weapon speed, is there anything out there that lists the weapon speeds for the items in IWD2?

Now a second question regarding ranged weapons. In the Duergar guard post you can get the Doom Bolter and the Hell Bolter crossbows. The doom bolter info says it has 2 attacks per round and the hell bolter has 3. Now, why is it that my character, a 13th level fighter who normally gets 3 attacks per round, would only get 2 attacks with the doom bolter? It seems kind of pointless to have a weapon that actually reduces the number of attacks you get. I would think, or hope, that weapons like the bolters would increase the number of attacks my characters got (sort of like the hammer longbow +4 or the heavy repeating crossbow from IWD1), not reduce the number of attacks.

[ September 24, 2002, 15:06: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

1) Bows and crossbows work exactly like 2ndE rulez.

2) You're learning the differences between ranged weapons, and melee weapons. You have the differences pinpointed exactly, and you are asking the fundamental questions which pervade even the most hardcore D&D geeks, this century. The choice is, as it has always meant to be, strictly yours.

Do I go with a ranged weapon, but have fewer attacks per round? What if it's undead? How about if I lead off with a ranged weapon, then equip a melee weapon, and close for close-quarters? Should I use the +2, or will the +1 get me by so I can use the +2 on someone else that's tougher? Should I put another point in crossbows, or put one in ******* swords so I can use one if I find it? Will the fire arrows work better than the +1's? What if he's immune to anything below +2?

I dunno; that's what's running through my mind, anyways. I'm not all that hardcore...

[edit: OMG! Someone better tell BIS that ******* swords are illegal! ]

[ September 24, 2002, 14:44: Message edited by: ejsmith ]

 

I dunno if it's in the manual but with crossbows you only get to attack once per round (plus any extra attacks you get from magical enhancements of the crossbow) only with a longbow or shortbow do you get to attack as many times as you character normally could with melee weapons (and if you get the rapid shot feat once more per round)

 

Thanks for the replies... EJ I do not think that the rules work like 2ed did because at level 1 my characters (if I recall correctly) only got 1 attack with bows instead of 2. So basically the number of ranged and melee attacks (based on the characters BAB) appear to be equal under 3ed rules in IWD2.

As to my original post, here is the twister. My 13th level fighter already had a magical crossbow that did not list having X number of attacks per round, and he was listed in my info screen as having 3 attacks with it (this was his normal BAB with melee weapons as well). Now, when I equipped the Doom Bolter, the number of attacks he had per round dropped to 2. Why why why? It just does not make sense...

 

All ranged weapons get one attack per round unless specified otherwise. With ranged weapons other than crossbows, you can use the rapid shot feat to get an additional attack. This feat does not work with crossbows.

Your attack rate applies only with melee weapons. You do not get 4 shots per round with your bow just because you have +16/+11/+6/+1 for your melee attacks.

I do not know why your other crossbow was claiming to give you 3 attacks per round, unless it had some special modifier (like speed).

 

I have two people equipped with crossbows, two with bows (I just equipp the highest thac0 I can find, regardless of range; I think one's a shortbow, and the other's a longbow). Two have slings, and my paladin/monk uses darts.

I've got some throwing hammers in there, and some returning frost darts as well.

I'll look next time i'm in-game. But I bet all the "normal" crossbows will give your guys 2 attacks per round. It's just that one particular magic/master crossbow that gives you the boost.

I swear; this weekend I'm putting together my new computer and burning it in on IwD2...

 

"Your attack rate applies only with melee weapons. You do not get 4 shots per round with your bow just because you have +16/+11/+6/+1 for your melee attacks."

That statement is absolutely 100% wrong. That base attack bonus is your base attack bonus for all types of weapons ranged or melee. So if you have a +6/+1 for your bab you would get 2 attacks with your bow. You do NOT get multiple attacks a round with a crossbow. This is because it takes a lot longer to reload a crossbow than a bow. with a light crossbow you get one attack a round regardless of your bab. (see bottom for why this is according to pen and paper rules). You also get 1 attack per round with a heavy crossbow (I believe). This is not in holding with pnp rules but I think they chose to deviate.

--Gx5ilver--

PNP rule description:

In each attack round you get 2 partial actions to perform. If you are a fighter and have 2 attacks per round to actually use both of those attacks you have to use a full round action (which takes 2 partial actions to perform). With a bow the reload time is considered non-relevant so you can take a full round action to attack with a bow. With a crossbow it takes actions to reload the crossbow, thus you cannot take a full round action with a crossbow (just for the record light crossbows take 1 partial action to reload, a heavy crossbow takes 1 FULL round action to reload, thus with a heavy crossbow you would only get 1 attack every 1.5 rounds).

 

Ok, after the myriad of responses that I received yesterday I had to go home and do some "testing" to see who was right etc... Here is the skinny. With bows and melee weapons you get the number of attacks you have based on your BAB. This is actually discussed in the manual under the rapid shot feat information. Crossbows do get only 1 attack per round unless otherwise specified.

However, there are exceptions and this is what caused my quandary to begin with. Apparently there are other crossbows besides the Doom and Hell bolter that give multiple attacks per round. My monk and my cleric were armed with weapons like this (specifically the xbows were Hagnan’s Folly and a Heavy Crossbow of Health +2, which gives +3 to hit and damage???). Both of these bows give my characters 2 or 3 attacks per round, whatever their current BAB is for their class-the monk’s is 2 and the cleric/fighter is 3. Now, both the Xbow of health and Hagnan’s Folly do not list extra attacks under their “special” information section, so you HAVE TO LOOK (and I did not) at how items affect your characters when you equip them… I guess I made the assumption that xbows and bows were similar since Hagnan’s Folly was one of the first magical xbows I found and I used its performance as my benchmark for all crossbows.

Now, I had found a Heavy Crossbow +3 (which was +5 to hit and damage-go figure) and I had equipped it to my monk, which dropped her to only 1 attack per round. I found some other light and heavy crossbows and they all had one attack per round. So, there we go… Thanks for the information regarding rapid shot and crossbows. The only character I have ever given rapid shot to is my ranger/wizard for her bow, but now that I know it doesn’t work with crossbows that will save a feat slot for my monk and my cleric.

So, does precise shot work with crossbows?

 

No, precise shot does not work with crossbows, read the feat description. Vormaerin even posted so.

 

"No, precise shot does not work with crossbows, read the feat description. Vormaerin even posted so. "

BigB where did he post that? Above Vormaerin says rapid shot does not work with crossbows. And here is the feat description:

PRECISE SHOT:
You are skilled at timing and aiming ranged attacks.

Benefit: Reduces the to hit penalty for firing in close quarters from -8 to -4.

Now, where does it say this does not work with crossbows?

 

There's a deal called "manual errata".

That's one of them.

You must remember, half the people on this board also frequent the BIS board. And the BIS people will tell you, that particular feat applies to bows only. Even if it doesn't say that in the manual.

That's why you should just cuss anytime there's a manual errata release in a patch...